The General Economics Thread

@ demarquis: Isn't the dollar a metric currency?

edited 19th Apr '14 6:58:54 AM by Greenmantle

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Blasphemy...

I do find that kind of funny. The US essentially says "We are the most cutting edge and powerful society on Earth" (I don't agree, but that's the rhetoric you get) but they still use the old British system of measurement even though it's really inefficient and awkward.

Not Three Laws compliant.

The US essentially says "We are the most cutting edge and powerful society on Earth"

That's half right...

Probably inertia. "It's the way it's always been, so that's how it will stay."

As I understand it, it's intertia + a secret battle between the paper lobbyists and the metal lobbyists.

but they still use the old British system of measurement even though it's really inefficient and awkward.

The thing though is that it's not inefficient or awkward for Americans because we grew up using it.

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+ counterfeiters?

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It's all fun and games until somebody crashes a spaceship.

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Not quite, they don't even manage to use actual Imperial Imperial^note Which the Commonwealth can understand, even if we'd jacked it in because it's shit, because we overhauled the Imperial measurements with the Weights and Measures Act 1824. The Yanks use US Customary, which has the distinction of being a system of measurement used by no one else in the entire world. A US customary ton, for example, is 907 kilos whilst an Imperial ton is 1016. US customary pints are smaller (lightweights) by 95 ml.

Bizarre. But hey, FREEDOM...

edited 19th Apr '14 1:52:01 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

There is a valid concern that switching to metric would be a massive disruption to our productivity since so many Americans are not used to it. Measurement systems become ingrained in your habitual memory like a native language; even if you switch consciously, you're still mentally translating, and people hate that sort of thing.

That said, it needs to be done sooner or later, but changing it in the United States would require a serious intentional effort on the part of politicians that's pretty much impossible right now. Heck, it could even be used as ammo against anyone who advocated it. Imagine a President (Democratic, most likely) who made it a platform issue. Fox News would be all over them for "selling out" to Europe.

edited 21st Apr '14 7:29:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

If we assume that swapping to metric comes with an increase in overall productivity that continues into perpetuity, then we can use some finance mumbo jumbo to detect the net present value of that increased output. We then compare to the costs involved in that output in the form of disrupting Americans and their love of imperials (ystem).

If the net present value of swapping to metric doesn't outweigh the associated costs, it's not a good idea to swap. This is true for eternity; until such point that the NPV is higher, it's just not a good idea to swap at that given point in time.

I think the switch to metric will be one of the positive outcomes of globalization. Most scientific measurements seem to already occur in kilograms and degrees centigrade, and i imagine most businesses who do a lot of foreign dealing already operate on it internally.

It's been taught in public schools for the longest while too. The only really big points of contention would be in the massive signage switchover, mostly for miles.

Just keep miles. Britain did.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

And pints. Nothing short of Armageddon will stop pints being pints. Well, unless you're stuck being a jessie and/or designated driver and going for a half pint of nothing worthwhile, of course.

Indeed. But, a proper pint of beer will always be a proper pint of beer. Or, there'll be hell for the landlord to pay.

edited 21st Apr '14 4:04:22 PM by Euodiachloris

American pints are smaller than Glorious Albion Master Race pints though. They should change them to Imperial Imperial while they're at it.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Anyone have examples of things Austrian economists point to as proof that their views are right, but which actually aren't?

Like when they point to Singapore while ignoring that the country's government has a big welfare system and private-public partnerships, for instance.

They sometimes point to Somalia as an Austrian paradise, ignoring the fact that's a fucking hellhole.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

lol, mises.org. My brother wanted me to read that site every day. I would read it once in a while, at first not understanding it, but over time, beginning to disagree with it more and more and thinking "This is crazy shit."

So this glowing article on Somalia was written in 2006. I guess it's only a matter of time before the country turns into a world power, and improves the way of life of its people, unlike that hellish nightmare known as Denmark. </sarcasm>

The article says that a democratic government clashes with the natural Somali way of life, which may be true, but that doesn't mean that the way things are now is great. But Austrian economists don't like government in general.

My dad is reading that "Basic Economics" (written by an Austrian libertarian and receiving exclusively praise from right-wing sources) and thinking it makes sense. He says he doesn't want to read a competing point of view until he's finished with the book. Fine. But he needs to see one when he's done.

I can't wait for my brother to get out of his obnoxious ultra-right phase. He's 25. That's the age I was when I left my "I have secret knowledge that most people don't" phase.

Somalia is proof that life goes on without a central state actor, certainly, that we don't just descend to the level of apes the moment parliament dissolves, but yes, Somalia is a hellhole.

I note with humor how the article writer (and this Van Notten guy) try to shill the clan system as some sort of libertarian paradise, while both downplaying and disparaging the fact that the clan system is Socialist in its internal affairs. In another thread on another site, i once argued that the "natural order" of human functioning without a state system would be tribal socialism, and Somalia seems to point to that pretty well. Only a state can allow individualism to function, because otherwise you need to band together to insure the delivery of goods and services.

I'm sure some anarchists would also look with approval to Somalia^note  Although more might to Republican Spain. You know where.

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I would love these people to try and explain how individualism would work without any sort of unified infrastructure.

Not Three Laws compliant.

Yes, libertarians and Austrians believe that with no or little government, the rights of the individual would be protected because free market or whatever. It would be funny if it weren't scary.

And their anti-government, "let the free market do whatever", "natural monopolies can't exist", etc. views show that it really is true, that Austrian economists essentially believe on sitting on your ass and letting whatever will happen happen, and they just assume that whatever will happen will eventually be good. At least, it sure as hell seems that way.

edited 22nd Apr '14 7:56:02 AM by BonsaiForest

That is, essentially, correct. Austrians believe in completely non-interventionist markets because only the unfettered individual can perfectly optimize their economic behavior. Either this is false to both observed history and to basic math, or their idea of a paradise is a place like Somalia where roving packs of bandits can kill you at a moment's notice.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

A French economist, Thomas Piketty, wrote a book on income equality recently, saying that the problem isn't that CEO's and such have high salaries, but that they're going to pass those massive savings onto their children, and we're going to end up in a hereditary oligarchy. Krugman did an interview with Bill Moyers, which you can watch (or read the transcript of) on Daily Kos.

No, you see, it's just half of Somalia which is an ancap paradise. The other half is a socialist hellhole. /whatsomeancapsactuallybelieve It's called having your cake and eating it, too.

I dunno, if you look at the prominent laissez-faire theorists, quite a lot of them were into dictatorship. Ironic?