Windows 8

Desktop applications are still supposed to work, anyway.

Ah, I misunderstood what he meant them? He was talking about the "apps", not the regular programs?

On Metro, the new interface that loads up first, all apps have to be downloaded from the Windows Store. You can't install Metro Apps any other way.

In Windows RT, you can only install Metro Apps. There's a desktop but it has a few programs and that's it: you can't add to it.

In the full Windows 8, there's a desktop. Desktop programs work like 7 and such, you can install them from anywhere, and Windows 7 programs and earlier go here. You can buy them on the Windows Store too, though.

However, Desktop and Metro are almost two different O Ss that are slapped together, they are not integrated. And it's likely Windows will push people away from the Desktop over time as much as possible: They get 10-30% of the profits from everything sold on the Windows Store. It's not a security measure, it's a goldmine.

They already push the 360 way more the PC games because they always get a cut. They basically want to do the same thing with PC programs. There will be ways around it of course for windows 8. But I doubt there will be a way around it for windows 9.

edited 28th Oct '12 12:39:42 PM by thatguythere47

More on windows 8.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2220288/currys-and-pc-world-struggles-to-shift-windows-8-devices-on-launch-day

Hah hah hah. Hah. If PC World can't sell Windows 8 to its usual crowd with the amount of publicity that Windows 8 got over here then there really is trouble at mill, as they say down sarth.

I really hope Windows, if they wish to sell it, makes two different versions of the GUI. The Metro system for those who want it, and the Desktop system for the sake of familiarity. To be honest, I am very worried about jumping ship if and when I have to get a new computer and all they offer is 8, in which not a lot of programs that I know and love are on it and instead are now supported by Linux.

Especially since I would have no idea how to work it. I certainly hope that Windows still allows programs to be downloaded and installed the old fashioned way.

I would be happy if they made the operating system with two different interfaces, and when you started up a user account you picked which interface you got. There'd be the 'Power User' interface, which is the desktop, and the regular interface, which is Metro. And you get the same functions both ways.

That's the confusing thing about Windows 8. Who is it for? There's still things you have to configure on the desktop, but by default you have to use the Metro interface too.

e: Although yes, W8 in desktop mode allows you to install whatever programs you want. People are more concerned that they'll try to edge out that freedom in later versions, based on the fact that Metro only works with Metro apps and you only get them from the Windows Market, or whatever it's called.

edited 28th Oct '12 1:43:51 PM by Kotep

I am of the opinion that a similar limitation on unsigned code like Mac will kill off Windows 8.

Research and R&D departments rely on custom code for their work and they are far bigger customers than normal people like you and me. Making it difficult to do so will be driving these customers away from using Windows 8. And when an entire department cannot use Windows 8, the rest of the many will be reluctant to do so due to comparability issues. That means that Windows 8 will be limited to industries like finance because almost every other industry has an R&D (it will be funny if Microsoft itself ended up not using Windows 8 because it is easier and saves time to code).

Actually, finance is almost entirely niche custom coded aps because what's needed for each account is different. There's a lot of coding in finance. It'll kill off the business market. The one group that does well with limited programs are artists and macs are better configured for them and don't have the two separate interfaces.

Oh dear. So basically what I said but worst.

Some things I wanted to talk about:

1: Don't panic. You can totally skip windows 8. Windows 7 isn't going anywhere, and computers, both laptop and desktop, that are preloaded with Windows 7 will be around for a long time. Windows 7 will be supported for many years to come, so if you have XP and the unsupported date is looming, just upgrade to 7.

2: I don't think this trend is going to be permanent. My prediction as someone who works in IT is that Windows 7 will still be the primary windows OS used, and that Windows 8 and all of its ugly trendy features meant to attract mac hipsters now that Jobs is dead won't bring in enough money, and Windows will realize their mistake. Expect the next iteration of Windows after 8 to be "normal".

3: All else fails, I'm just going to jump to Ubuntu and run a virtual machine with a pirated copy of whatever relevant windows OS is needed for gaming.

Well, I'm not really panicking. I'm pretty much basically said point 2 or else Microsoft is going to lose a lot of customers.

@Ira: I think you mistake how much a signed-code restriction interferes with a developer. All that it means is that anyone developing software needs to sign up for the developer program and get a signing key. For the mac, this is a total expenditure of $100. I suspect Microsoft has a similarly cheap bottom-tier developer account.

Adding that signing key to your development environment is a simple task (under 5 minutes of work on Apple's Xcode, and that I recall equivalently easy on Microsoft developer tools).

At that point, everything you build using production (as opposed to testing) build options will be signed and able to be run by everyone.

On a Mac using 10.8 Mountain Lion, the signed-code restriction can be overridden by holding down keys during invocation (generally Option, aka Alt, if I remember right) or disabled completely by going into System Preferences -> Security.

Currently there's no signed-code restriction for Desktop apps in W Indows 8.

@Occono: the point of app-store-required is both financial and security. The point of signed-code-only is also both, in that it is an essential prerequisite to app-store-required, but is also useful for security purposes even for code distributed in other ways.

$100 dollars isn't cheep and if you use a lot of custom programs it's $100 dollars a pop.

$100 per developer, not per user, and that's for individual developers rather than corporate accounts. It's not a pricetag that's going to affect businesses. The people it hurts are free software developers, students and hobbyists, not business, and the ability to turn it off reduces that impact.

It's not going to effect the big businesses. It is going to effect small businesses.

Because small time devs will want to pay 100 bucks to distribute freeware...

I honestly cannot think of any program on this machine I've payed for outside of games. Freeware every step of the way.

@ Morven: But comparing with "not having to spend time, money and effort" that is in Windows 7 and Linux that is still too much. And businesses will need all the cutting edge that they need to compete (well, probably unless you're a very big business that you do not care. But still.)

And let's not forget the fact that students (honors, masters or Ph D) form the backbone of university research, so that's at least that part gone.

edited 28th Oct '12 6:48:34 PM by IraTheSquire

Metro can't sideload "signed" apps, like that Mac option between store-only and all programs allowed, I thought. They have to be from the store?

The ability exists for enterprise users, according to this Technet article. Not for regular users.

(update) Oh, and if you get yourself a free developer account you can also enable it, according to this article.

edited 29th Oct '12 1:31:45 AM by Morven

Yeeeeaaaahhh, I'm just going to stick with windows 7 and let all this other new stuff be, 'mkay?

I mean, I don't hate new stuff, but windows 7 had a nice thing going with easy access to every thing I'll ever need. I'd rather not risk that for this oddly-inspired new direction.

Have a few words on the latest hiccups for Microsoft's new Fondle OS and Fondle Slabs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/surface_delivery_delays_confusion/

No Fondle Slab on the date in which you were TOLD you were going to get it for you, pre-order submitting paying customer. Have a voucher instead while you wait. Which you have to spend on our Fondle OS Online Software store.

There are precisely four words in which I would answer that one.

Fuck. That. Right. Off.

edited 29th Oct '12 8:30:48 AM by TamH70

The level of control that Microsoft seems to want to take with windows 8 and that proprietary App bullshit worries and annoys me.

I don't like control. Especially where computers are concerned. The further Microsoft goes in that direction away from open source, and wants to synch all your social media and monitor everything you do, the quicker my ass will run off to Ubuntu instead.

This shit needs to stop, it's pervasive everywhere online now. I don't want programs that aren't social media to be linked to my social media(youtube...) and I don't support strangling developers by forcing them to make an account, regardless of if it costs 100 dollars or not. Developers should not have to be accountable to Microsoft to develop applications, that's absolute bullshit.

You aren't Apple, and that's a good thing. You'll never be better at being Apple than Apple, so stop fucking trying, or you'll alienate your huge customer base and essentially open yourself up to hemorrhaging money.

If I wanted trendy stupid flashy icons and UI, and an OS that handholds me and constricts how much I can manipulate it, I'd be an Apple user. Or if I wanted to write shitty Twilight fan fiction in a Starbucks.

edited 29th Oct '12 9:02:57 AM by Barkey

Regardless of whether one likes Apple and their systems or not, I can't see that it's smart for MS to blindly do the same things in such a reactive manner. It's ignoring the fact that Apple's success might even be in spite of some of their decisions, rather than because of them.

I am surprised no one posted this one on Halloween.

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/10/31