Dota 2

If we're going to play together, are we going to discuss any, uh, plans or strategies or something beforehand? That way I could train a specific strategy or hero or role or something in advance, and not mess things up.

I think it would be wise to, although I think before anyone runs off needing to learn a whole bunch of new things, the thread needs to take stock of who's joining in and what heroes and role experience they have.

EDIT: Okay, nabbed my profile URL: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197991396072/

edited 21st Jan '15 4:15:47 PM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

I've sent a friend request to you, and to Eldrake last page too.

As I've said before, I think I can play support reasonably well, and I have experience with Lion, Warlock and Shadow Demon. I've tried other heroes, but I haven't actively tried to improve myself with them as I did with these three. I was thinking about trying to learn a new hero soon (one from among Drow Ranger, Lich, Pugna, Outworld Devourer, Undying or Necrophos), so if the team needs anything specific I could try to learn something else. Otherwise, I'd probably play as one of the three I think I'm best with.

As I live in Denmark, my timezone is naturally CET. I have a lot of free time these days, so I should be able to find a time to play unless I have something I need to attend to. Feel free to ask me if I would like to play, just don't feel sad if I decline for whatever reasons.

I'm GMT -6 right now. My time zone is weird and is on permanent DST, so we don't do time changes.

Heroes I'd feel confident playing right this moment: Windranger, Disruptor, Earthshaker, Lich, Venge.

Heroes I have experience with, but would need to refamiliarize myself with at least one bot match first: Luna, Drow, Juggs, Sven, Sniper, Viper, Tiny, Omni, TA.

I'm EST, GMT-5. Alas, homework exists, so my best days are Saturday and Wednesday.

As a core, I'm pretty good with Wraith King, Bristleback, Slark, Necrophos, Juggernaut, and Riki. I'm okay with Drow, Sniper, Legion Commander, Night Stalker, Luna, Phantom Lancer, Phantom Assassin, Sven, and Anti-Mage. You might catch me playing Silencer or Windranger, but I'm not that great with them.

As a support, I'm pretty good with Witch Doctor and Lich. I'm okay with Tidehunter, Techies, and Shadow Shaman. You might catch me playing Bounty Hunter, but my record with him is... questionable.

Oh, yeah, schedule. Should've mentioned that I work a standard 9-5ish job (with possible random oncallness, yay), so generally I'll only be available at night on weekdays and those I'll likely need at least a day of advance notice on. Weekends are much more flexible and Sat or Sun I should be able to either spontaneously jump in or be ready within a couple hours.

It's always nice to have a game where people communicate and play well together. Had one just now. Worked together with our cooldowns, called missings, and had that general together vibe where we were all on the same page. Always a nice feeling. (I'm a little biased 'cause someone said I was MVP, but hey, always makes you feel good, especially when you're supporting.)

I don't plan on buying headphones just to play this game better, so all I can do is use alt-messages and ring-bind commands. I'm terrible at performing actions while typing out messages. I mostly call missing if the lane is empty (or if the enemy includes an invisibility hero or Spirit Breaker), alt-click items like Mekansm or Arcane Boots, and notify people when my ultimate is up if I think it'll be useful. There's not much more I can do.

I remember a game where I was Ogre Magi and Spirit Breaker appeared out of nowhere and killed the already-nearly-dead Anti-Mage I was Supporting... and then an ally noted that SB was missing. I only find it funny because I managed to survive and then almost singlehandedly destroy a tower before I left because of poor networking detected.

I don't think I can voice chat while playing, but the text chat and alt-clicking things seem to work for me. Again, if anyone has an idea of what hero they're planning to use (someone has to pick first, right? :P) we could see which other heroes synergize well and what items.

On another topic, tried Pugna for the first time yesterday. Two matches against bots, and I was soloing middle in both of them. The first one was horrible. The second one, not so much. Chaos Knight was annoying in both of them. Still trying to work out an item plan for Pugna, and since I haven't been able to play top or bot lane with him I only know the strategy is a little different, but not exactly what the strategy is. I remember I finished the last game with Bottle, Arcane Boots, Aghanim Scepter, Mekansm, Scythe of Vyse and BKB. I sold my Urn of Shadows seeing the Scythe would give me more mana regen, and that most of the time the healing was useless because I'd just die (also I had life drain and Mekansm, and two other bots also had Mekansm ._.). Any suggestions?

Please look at this.

Well, that's one way to roleplay as Ogre Magi.

I tend to shy away from being a 1 or 2 core because I'm not as good at it (my last hitting when under pressure is pretty soso), as might be evidenced by many of my listed best being traditional 5s. I'd probably prefer to run a 3 or 4 Windranger (I love her versatility) mostly because I'm most familiar with her. I guess the only issue with that is if the other team snags her first, I don't have a good backup 3 yet, so I'd probably need to swap with whoever is 5 and run Earthshaker or Lich (I know Earthshaker can be built as a semi-carry, but I don't really have confidence in that).

@Eldrake: I don't quite remember if I could have done more to help my Carry, or if it was already hopeless and better to save myself. I had very little mana, but maybe I should've conserved it better in case of a gank.

I rarely play Hard Carries simply because those positions are already taken by the time I get to pick someone. Also, I prefer Strength heroes because I find them the most interesting and I feel safe hiding behind plenty of HP.

Would you say that Oracle is a position 4, or a position 3? I don't think he's a Hard Support, since he needs some good mana and MP regen items to do much. And playing him as anything resembling a Carry makes as much sense as playing Necrophos as a Support.

edited 23rd Jan '15 9:55:16 PM by MightyMatilda

On Pugna: Pugna's Nether Blast deals damage to towers. This is very unique to Pugna. Thus, you should be pushing towers down a lot with Pugna. While Pugna can support, he functions better as a core.

One of the best items for early pushes is Mekanism. Grab this and/or Urn of Shadows. Both offer great sustain for early pushes. From there, work in finishing a Necronomicon (sometimes referred to as a Necrobook), all the way to Level Three.

I wouldn't sell Urn of Shadows unless you're really hitting that late-late game, where even hard supports are getting big items.

In teamfights, keep this in mind.

• Hide your Nether Ward in the trees if you can. Makes it much harder to remove.
• Decripify makes your target ally or enemy ethereal. Remember the offensive and defensive benefits of that. Dagon is a situational item on Pugna because of this.

On Oracle: Oracle actually has a BAT of 1.4, tied with Juggneraut for the lowest BAT. This, combined with his high attack range and powerful combos, means he can be played as a strong carry.

That said, Oracle's big purpose as a support is to allow his carry to go super deep without fear with abilities like False Promise. His abilities are strong enough that he doesn't need too many items, although they are very nice.

In short.◊

On Necrophos: Necrophos can be a fine support. Don't need items to delete someone with Scythe. I play Necro as a support all the time. That said, he certainly enjoys farm, and it lets you take greater advantage of Hearstopper Aura, but he's a fine position 4 or 5.

On My Choice Roles: When I support, I usually play position 5. When I play core, I usually take position 1 or 2, depending on if someone has a "harder" carry than I. I prefer staying away from fights and farming until I "HAVE FINISHED FARMING," so to speak, hoping my team can make enough space for me.

edited 23rd Jan '15 9:26:41 AM by MetaSkipper

@MightyMatilda: I was talking about the video above my post. Sorry for the confusion.

As for the topic on hand, I am flexible and can play just about any role and position. Offlane is my favorite though.

edited 23rd Jan '15 9:47:48 AM by Eldrake

I have to say I haven't seen positions 1 to 5 being discussed before. I don't know the meaning of the jargon. Are they dual lane top, solo mid, and dual lane bottom? I also don't know which role "core" is.

I guess I could make Urn of Shadows if no one else was making it on my team, otherwise I don't see the need to. Been playing a few games without it, and they all are going ok. Right now I'm starting with Tango, two Branches and one Mask. Then Boots of Speed, Ring of Basilius, Bottle, Arcane Boots, Mekansm and finally Necronomicon. I only finished the Necronomicon once so far, because the game usually ends before I can

Right now I feel I can support the team with Lion, Warlock or Shadow Demon, or... I don't know, push with Pugna. Or do whatever a core does with Pugna.

Position is farm priority. Position 1 gets the most farm, while Position 5 gets the least farm.

For an example, Anti-Mage would be Position 1, and Venomancer would be Position 5.

In short, is right. In long, however, it's a little more complex.

Many heroes function in a variety of positions. For example, Venomancer can be played as a core or support. In fact, I've been seeing a lot of core Veno in pro play recently.

The trick is figuring out who will make the best out of the farm priority they are given. Farm priority can shift based on the team composition, or even priorities in game.

• Position 1 is traditionally the hard carry. This is the hero that scales the best with farm, and would probably do very poorly with out it. This hero is usually found in the safe lane, or less commonly, the mid lane. They also commonly farm the jungle the most as the mid-game starts.
• Position 2 is traditionally the hero that wants farm, but doesn't want to compete with the Position 1. This hero usually also wants farm to be useful now and/or in the mid-game, not just the late game. These heroes are usually found in the midlane, or sometimes the safe lane.
• Position 3 is usually a hero that wants to hit an important item timing to exploit, like Blink Dagger. Sometimes, this hero loses farm priority after hitting that timing. Depending on how badly the team wants that timing, this hero is found in the offlane, jungle, or safelane.
• Position 4 is the hero that does not need a lot of farm to be useful, or at least needs it less than the other heroes. This hero usually completes at least one big item. This usually marks one of the "traditional" supports. This position has no real lane; they can be found in the safe lane, off lane, jungle, (dual) mid lane, or even roaming.
• Position 5 is the hero that can function even with no farm. This does not mean that cannot use farm well; it means that the rest of the team needs the farm more. Again, "traditional" support, that can be found in anywhere.

As for what "core" and "support" are, that's really nebulous. Basically, a "core" is someone who wants farm, and a "support" is someone who doesn't, though even that is flexibile. You can run anywhere from one to four cores, though two or three tends to be popular. Five cores splits farm too much, and no cores is just a waste.

edited 23rd Jan '15 11:31:24 AM by MetaSkipper

Played a round of oracle.

It was painful

Did the Disarm+Healing combo on an ally, Watch them Leeroy into the enemies.

Popped my ultimate in a teamfight, watched the practically invulnerable carry run away from the fight.

Oracle sucks without good teamplay.

Oracle is so complicated yet interesting (kinda like Invoker), that he is, so far, the only hero who I use a Steam build for (it's called "Supportacle", because I couldn't resist). The last game I played with him, he seemed nearly unbeatable during the laning stage, since a cast of Fate's Edict followed by a couple of attacks was enough to send a Carry panicking, and the Fate's Edict + Purifying Flames combo is easy to remember. however, during the hectic environment of teamfights, his combos are much harder to keep track of. I might have accidentally saved one enemy from getting killed when I used a Fortune's End -> Purifying Flames combo incorrectly.

For that match, after getting Arcane Boots and Eul's Scepter, I focused on getting healing items like Mekansm, which synergizes extremely well with his ultimate. I also started the match by reminding my teammates that my ultimate could ONLY be broken by the enemies' True Sight. This probably helps significantly in low-level games. I did far better than I expected, scoring something like 11-1-11, but since it was just one game, I still can't say if I'm good at Oracle, or if my opponents that match were just doing badly in general.

Strange. This thread was dropped from my watchlist. Anyways...

I usually use Steam builds if only because that makes finding the item I want to make easier. It also tells me the order in which I should learn skills, which is a nice reminder when I'm learning a new hero or just whenever.

Are we going to play a game later today, then?

I think I can play Warlock, Shadow Demon and Pugna well enough. Lion too, but I just had a game with him, and despite winning I don't think I did a very good job. If anything, I forgot I usually make Arcane Boots instead of Tranquil Boots for him, because I need that fast mana regen. Maybe if I started using a Bottle as Lion that'd help. I don't think any of these needs to farm a lot to do well. Maybe they are... Position 4? Maybe 3 if you try playing them as semi-carry? Warlock and Shadow Demon are sorta dependant on their teammates, specially Shadow Demon, so it depends on what you'd be playing too. Pugna, after level 7, gets so much gold... That's when I learn the fourth level of Nether Blast, and ranged creeps start dying in one cast.

I can go either top or bot with Shadow Demon and Warlock, I don't particularly care. I prefer to go mid with Pugna, but that depends on the enemy there (solo Pugna versus Razor or Shadow Demon? Haha, nope), so I can also go top or bot with him.

Doesn't look like tonight is particularly good for everyone. What about tomorrow (Sat) at 11PM EST? That's when Pannic and I should be available with certainty.

Shadow Demon, Warlock, and Lion are all traditionally played as Position 5, maybe 4 depending on who the other support(s) are, if at all. Maybe you give Warlock the 4/3 for the fast Aghs, but other than that. Even Blink Lion players rarely get farm priority, from what I've seen.

Tangent: Blink on Lion? Well, Lion is pretty squishy. Blink Dagger lets you stay in the back, then blink in, Hex, Earth Spike, Finger, maybe Mana Drain, and beat it. As opposed to waddling in with your team and possibly getting focused down or initiated on. It's a guide aimed at higher level players, but there are nice insights in there.

As for Pugna, I consulted the Reddit hivemind. This is what they told me.

It looks like we have a lot of people who prefer playing support, so I suppose that makes me the position 1 or 2. Fine by me. Just as a question, how active do you want me to be in the early game? Do you need me somewhat active or can I AFK farm for fifteen-twenty minutes?

The problem that might come up is your today is my tonight... That said, 11 PM EST (16:00 GMT) should be fine for me for a game or two.

Now the question at hand is... does everyone want to join the official TV Tropes Dota 2 team?

edited 23rd Jan '15 8:27:40 PM by MetaSkipper

I think I should join that Dota guild some time soon. It sounds fun. Right now, the Carry I'm best with is Slardar, though I mostly use him against invisibility heroes, which might skew the win rates a tad.