Arrow. Green Arrow tv show.

The season ends with anti wild dog replacing wild dog.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa

‘Arrow’ EP Marc Guggenheim Teases Dark Days Ahead for Felicity http://collider.com/arrow-season-5-felicity-billy/

Sounds like more of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-_wkvXc7A

edited 9th Jan '17 8:46:37 AM by Guy01

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?

But she's the character we care the most about.

I mean what's the worst he's going to do, put her in a wheelchair? Felicity already no-sold that sh't and recovered in record-breaking time at a dramatically appropriate moment.

I don't hate Felicity but they make this too easy.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I always wondered why they did that. I mean, I understand them putting her in a wheelchair — that's suitably dramatic — but then to make her walk again just a few episodes later? I mean, they should have just left her in the wheelchair and showed her steadily recovering. It would have made a much better recurring plotline for her than the one they did give her.

Presumably the same silly "no one thinks people in wheelchairs can be anything but pitiable and negative" logic that led to DC un-Oracle-ing Barbara Gordon.

They weren't looking to add elements to her character, they were looking to give her a terrible but brief new challenge to deal with whose shock value might put butts in seats for the duration.

edited 9th Jan '17 8:10:33 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I actually don't believe that was DC's logic in un-doing Barbara Gordon's wheelchair. I think it was more "Barbara Gordon is the most recognizable Batgirl out there, she should be Batgirl." Since pretty much every adaptation (aside from the short lived Birds of Prey show) had used her as Batgirl and not Oracle, they simply reverted her back to back to Batgirl. (No adaptation so far has used Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown, which is just a shame.)

I think it was a little bit of both.

Given the comments the people involved were making at the time, I got the impression that DC as a whole saw what happened to Barbara as being just another of their shock value things (which, admittedly, you could say it was - at first anyway) that they ultimately ended up stuck with, and that their thought process was "well, this has gone on long enough, it's time for Barbara to stop being in a wheelchair and start being an actual character who can do stuff again." IIRC around that time they were reverting a lot of their shock value things back to back.

In a more charitable way of looking at it, there were also writers involved who were more "it's time for Barbara to move past the fridging she got and be great again," which is a perspective that's more in the right place (though it involved discarding the strong identity she formed as Oracle as less important).

The downside was, both carried the implicit (though it was more blatant in some of the statements and comments) idea that Barbara was inherently less impressive a character if she was in a wheelchair, and thus needed to be "fixed," and I remember there being a bit of a backlash to the move on those grounds - particularly from people who liked there being such a prominent disabled person in the mythos. Not that DC cared, but then they rarely do.

edited 10th Jan '17 4:04:35 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I'm about halfway though my rewatch of Arrow S4 and one character who I'd like to see more of, but am 99% certain I will not, is Nora Darhk.

For one thing Arrow is the wrong genre for it, but I'd be really interested to find out what happened to her after the events of season 4.

I mean, with that kind of childhood the kid's going to have some serious issues. But I think it would be interesting to see.

You could have even had Oliver ask Samantha to take her in, and get adoptive sibling interactions between her and William.

Although that would be pretty out of character for Samantha.

I even tried looking for fanfiction. But FFN has no character tag for her and AO 3 has a grand total of 1 story with 2 chapters vaguely matching what I was looking for.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

These situations rarely seem to work out for Oliver.

But it is funny that we have no idea what happened to her. Well, maybe they're saving that for Darhk's future characterization in Legends.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

So I would like to ask...would you say that Season 4 is better upon rewatch or worse and why?

Hmm.

Well I'm not done yet. But I'm finding that the whole Olicity relationship drama subplot feels much more irritating this time around. Mainly because it feels even more manufactured on the writers behalf now that I know where it's heading. (I'm currently on the episode before they break up).

Domestic Oliver is still the Best Thing Ever though.

I'm quite fond of the whole thing with Darhk giving the Green Arrow a few weeks of respite. Its a good way to let them deal with other plots for a while so the entire season isn't just dealing with him.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

Yeah I actually find it hard to rewatch Oliver and Felicity's interactions in any previous season simply because I know where it's headed.

Why is Felicity a BAD character ? Dambidoom Flarrowverse Discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVrKweMj9yA

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?

Hmm...I'm still not convinced that Felicity is a bad character. Now an unlikable one, sure; but definitely not a bad one. While the writing for her character is inconsistent and sometimes awful; that is criticism that can be made for the entire show...and Oliver for that matter.

Also, I'm really tired of the whole "Felicity was better in small doses argument". Guys, a character only used in small doses is NOT really a character...they're a prop. I also dislike the unsettling idea that Felicity "should have stayed in her place" instead of getting a bigger role. Felicity wasn't popular just because she was funny. She was popular because she was a unique, witty, kindhearted, and talented individual who made Oliver a better human being and helped his character development.

As far as the whole Felicity choosing Oliver over the city argument in the Season 3 finale; I mean was she supposed to just let Oliver die? I mean she had a way to save him and she did. I'm pretty sure Thea, Laurel, or Diggle would have done the same thing. However, I agree that the dialogue in that scene wasn't written well.

There's a lot of things to hate about Felicity, but it has less to do with her being a bad character (which is a heavily subjective claim) and more to do with how the writers treat her. She becomes more and more defined by her relationship with Oliver as the series goes on and that really hurts them both in the long run. It also doesn't help that when it comes to each other, Oliver and Felicity get kind of stupid. However, for some reason, Felicity always seems to be the one in the wrong in the eyes of the audience while Oliver gets a free pass because he's, you know, The Hero.

edited 17th Jan '17 9:35:56 AM by deuteragonist

What are you talking about? Oliver gets call out his stupid decisions all the time, especially here. It's one of the reasons most people dislike Season 3 since it requires Oliver to hold the Idiot Ball in regards to Merlyn. If anything Oliver tends to get more crap in-universe despite not being completely in the wrong.

Oliver getting called out is one thing and that's totally fine. But I don't see 10-minute long videos, fan polls, arrow fan sites, and articles dedicated to how awful of a character he is or how he's ruining the show. Or fans saying how they will only start watching the show again when he's killed off.

Granted, I love Oliver AND Felicity, but what I loathe is immeasurable and unnecessary hatred directed towards one character. And that goes all the way back to Season One when Laurel was the most hated character on television.

edited 17th Jan '17 3:00:08 PM by deuteragonist

People roll their eyes and shout angrily when Oliver is stupid, when Felicity is stupid there's a sub-set of the fan base that lets out a deep loathing and hatred for her.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

All of that might be because of her Ensemble Dark Horse status previously.

From what I understand Laurel and Thea had pretty sizable hatedoms early on that died down a bit for the former and is pretty much gone for the latter. Compare this to Felicity who was apparently popular from the get-go eventually become what the fandom hated most due to poor writing decisions. Oliver has had his share of stupid ideas from the beginning, which varies widely as to how bad they are, but he's expected to learn from them and he has more or less has.

edited 19th Jan '17 8:59:23 AM by Cross

For me, the difference is simple. The show will always shit on Oliver somehow even when Strawman Has a Point. Felicity? The show will bend over backwards to make her right in anything, even when she's took the exact opposite position when it's not her, and she never has any true comeuppance. She's never forced to grow as a person. She's just a hypocritical, selfish person and she has the true Protagonist-Centered Morality.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.

I don't know, I feel she's gotten way better this season. Hell, Oliver basically killed her boyfriend and she didn't blame him at all.

The only I had a problem with this season in regards to Felicity ties to the new recruits and how poorly the Havenrock stuff was handled.

Is archery really big in Starling? Cause that's the only explanation I can take for why no one knew the Hood and Green Arrow are the same guy.

As far as the public was aware the Hood was dead and besides there plenty of unrelated archers showing up.

Yeah.

I think the fact that the Hood and the Arrow were the same guy was well known (as far as I know he didn't hide the name change), but since everyone thought the Arrow was Roy, and that he was killed, that close off any avenue for them to realize he was Oliver unless they already knew.

I imagine that there's only a handful of people who know he was all three. Most who find out he's the Green Arrow don't make the connection to the Arrow / Hood since he's supposed to be dead in universe.

One Strip! One Strip!

Plus, if there can be two different archers in red hoods doing vigilante stuff, why not a few different archers in green hoods?