Arrow. Green Arrow tv show.

I don't really buy 100% that Prometheus is Claybourne Jr either. This whole episode felt more like Prom toying with Ollie using Claybourne as a means, to start to break him. It did not feel like it was his "Ace in the hole" strategy.

I wonder if Prometheus could be the son of one of the countless mooks Ollie slaughtered on his way up though. Because these guys drop like flies, yet for all we know they are just hired ecurity. They don't necessarily deserve an arrow through the chest.

Still, Claybourne feels like a "random villain", for lack of a better word, and that does not sit right with the intimacy he displays with Oliver - and his past. Plus, I think the writers can create a more complex character if Prometheus is the heir of someone slightly less of a Card-Carrying Villain than Claybourne. Seriously, taunting Ollie about killing poor people with tuberculosis? Even Count Vertigo would have objected to that, it's among the most vile speeches we got in five seasons. Prometheus having a point seems to be a central part of the season, and him avenging the death of someone like Claybourne...yeah, it's hard to argue that his death was bad by any means, considering what kind of human being he was.

As for that last scene, I hope Ollie isn't having guilt hallucinations. That would be a very, very low blow from the writers.

edited 10th Dec '16 7:42:30 AM by Julep

So, why do you think Prometheus is acting like a Deathstroke wannabe?

Loved one of random security guard Oliver killed has been my prime theory.

Another theory is that Prometheus was somehow victimized by the Bratva outfit we occasionally saw in Starling City, which Oliver knew about but never took any action against because he was a Bratva member and they were a useful resource for him.

Prometheus is almost certainly not Claybourne. Otherwise, we would've found out via an unmasking.

If the heroes become sure of a masked person's identity before that mask actually comes off, you can be sure that the person behind that mask will be someone else.

Except, while the characters know Claybourne had a son who might be out for revenge, they don't know that son's name or what he looks like as an adult. So the Claybourne Jr. theory might be true, and they're holding off on the unmasking so that an already established character can be revealed as having been Claybourne's kid the whole time.

Like I said, he will likely be someone Oliver knew in Russia, which will make the unmasking significant rather than anti-climactic.

I'm hoping Prometheus will turn out to be Susan Williams. Mostly just so the Arrowverse can finally have a prominent lady villain.

She's the reporter lady right.

I actually second this. I considered she might be him the moment he visited her post Billy murdering.

I was kind of suspicious about Oliver's new love interest as well.

But really dressing up like that and calling herself Prometheus seems really weird. Plus Billy got axed so, the idea that any new character we're supposed to trust turns out to be in some way to be related to Prometheus, itself, seems like a Red Herring. It has to be someone from Oliver's past or else all of this guilt-tripping is worthless.

Since Tommy coming back to Arrow seems unlikely, I'd [wmg that ]it could be Shado. But it's not her body type at all, and Shado doesn't really have any reason to come back from the dead to hurt Oliver. By all accounts she was more vicious than he was by the time she died.

edited 10th Dec '16 3:20:50 PM by Soble

Body type doesn't mean much for these types of reveals. There was a big theory that there were actually two Reverse-Flashes in season one of The Flash because Tom Cavanaugh and his stunt double had different body types. As for Shado, she does have an identical twin sister, albeit one that everyone wants to forget about. And I wouldn't call her "vicious." She didn't really have an opportunity to be vicious, and even so we never saw her brutally kill anyone like Oliver did in this episode (and back in season one).

That's not really important, unless in the next episode "Clayborne's son is hiding out as someone else, so someone we know is actually him under an assumed name" becomes a plot point. The issue here is the the reveal - the characters become sure that Prometheus' identity is Clayborne son, but there's no confirmation or real impact on Prometheus as a character - it's just an idea the heroes cooked up on their own.

If Prometheus' identity really is a mystery, then this is the part in every mystery story where someone introduces the idea that the culprit is X character before the actual climax/big reveal that its someone else. That character is never going to be the actual culprit, because that would deflate the impact of the reveal itself. Clayborne son, unless something changes, is going to be a dead end - Ollie assumes its the case, but he's setting himself up to be wrong.

edited 10th Dec '16 7:26:05 PM by KnownUnknown

So....

Is Evelyn right?

Or does her siding with a damned cop killer kinda make her point moot?

I want to hear what all of you have to say on the matter.

Siding with a psycho does indeed make her point moot.

Ok.

So what if she didn't do that?

So if she split off from Oliver but still did her own thing? That would be fine honestly.

Yeah her point is hindered by teaming up with another murderer. This would work better if she just gave Prometheus information to eliminate green arrow. Then get Prometheus arrested for murder and protect the city herself.

Yeah, it's possible her plan is to, per her deal with Prometheus, have a front row seat when he and Oliver have their death match, then swoop in and take down whoever's left standing at the end of it.

Barring that, yeah, she's being a big ol' hypocrite.

edited 10th Dec '16 6:25:02 PM by RavenWilder

Honestly, even when he was the Hood, Oliver has done more good for the city then bad.

I mean, he stopped the Undertaking, which would have happened without him.

Slade was kinda his fault, and Ra's as well, but he also saved the city from Darhk.

True, he's Stupid Evil Awesome Oliver Queen, but I'd say he has not failed Star ling City.

He's killed a large amount of people in the city, but he ain't failed it. He's one of the few people trying to keep it from dying when many others would have said fuck this shit and bolted.

Oliver brutally killed a bunch of guards who were defending various horrific criminals. Prometheus killed a bunch of completely random people just to get Oliver's attention, not to mention cops. Was Oliver wrong? Of course. Punch-Clock Villain is totally a thing, and he never bothered to check if those guards had any idea what kind of person they were working for. But there's still a very big difference between killing armed opponents who are preventing you from killing people who very much deserve it, and killing random innocents just to get someone's attention.

It's the same as last season, when one of Darhk's cultists claimed that Darhk was in the right all along, and Oliver actually considered it. Just because the people who are trying to do the right thing have problems doesn't mean that the people who are trying to do the wrong thing have a point.

edited 10th Dec '16 8:08:00 PM by Discar

Truthfully, the fact that, even if it's bullshit, Oliver cares enough to actually think about things says more good about him.

Even if he fucks up a lot, at least he can consider he's doing wrong. He's tried hard to change, and even back in his hood days, he was doing a lot to save the city. Was he doing it in the right way? No, but he was still trying.

You should check if you don't have a fever, Rob. That's a lot of nice things to say about Oliver in a single page.

The moment he came back from the trap in this episode might have been one of the most emotional I have seen Oliver in five seasons, it was genuinely touching.

Oliver didn't actually stop the Undertaking. Moira's evacuation announcement probably saved a lot of lives, but they couldn't stop the earthquake machine from going off.

edited 11th Dec '16 8:28:29 AM by RavenWilder

Oh.

Well, I never saw a lot of Season one (or at all; I came in during season 3 because of the Flash).

So what did he do besides defeating Malcolm.

Though if I am remembering correctly didn't Oliver have to talk her into letting people know by implicating herself in being part of the undertaking.

Yes. And he stopped one of the earthquake machines; Malcolm just had a spare. So the Glades only got knocked halfway to hell instead of all the way.