16 oz. Soda Ban Approved By NYC Board of Health

It's not (entirely) a matter of awareness.

It's a matter of psychology. No one is under any illusion that bad food is good for you. Some are under the illusion that it's not AS bad for you as it is. Some are under the illusion that it's WORSE for you than it is *

. More education will help, but there is a limit to how far greater education can carry people. There's a number of ways we could attempt to fix the Psychology problem, some of which could cause bigger problems. There are also ways we can combat the greater issue of how shitty for you junk food is, but that gets resistance from the "I'm healthy, so everyone else can be crowd." Regulating the amount of "this shit is bad for you" in junk food is a start. There's no good reason for a small 1-serving bag of Cheetos to have 500mg sodium in it. Same with regulating portion sizes. Taxation. Push the junk food to the back of the stores, so you have to walk past the healthy stuff first.

Will people still eat junk food? Sure. Do people still smoke, despite education, taxation, etc? Yes. The goal is not to stop people from doing it all together. It's to reduce the amount it is done. It's damage control. Regulating alcohol and tobacco didn't eliminate the problem, but it DID help. We just went the extra mile with those things, because dying of cancer or a drunk driver killing someone else are still worse than dying from obesity related complications.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Our education system isn't that bad. Letting Obama's plans go through will help more.

But the fundamental problem is cultural. My son's generation is the first that may die before their parents. I see too many first hand examples of this possibility. Type 1 and 2 diabetes are on the rise. So are different heart conditions.

My sister has amazing health insurance. Her work even does free health screenings. She is 29 and she has high cholesterol and high blood pressure. She's only about 15lbs overweight. But she won't work out with me. She gets winded walking the block. When we lived together, she rather make fun of me while I am doing crunches or pull on my clothes while I do pushups and watch tv all night. But she bitches about not fitting into clothes she just had last season.

Too many people are like her. She knows she's in danger. She knows she is too young. She knows eating fried foods and drinking coke all night is going to kill her. But that doesn't stop her from eating more pizza while watching the next show. She bitches how our mom didn't teach us healthy eating then she buys her daughter fast food.

You can give the best school lunches, you can ban colorful marketing and targeting children, you can make community programs more accessible. We have done all these things.

But how do you make people give a damn to act on these resources and use their education?

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

(sighs) Yeah, if we're talking about strangers - I really don't care what they do to their bodies. Our health net will just let people die over here anyway.

But if we're talking about family and friends, yeah, I want the government to help them, to help me help them.

When it comes to health, prevention is the best course.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

The short answer is? You either start banning foods that are harmful or you figure out a way to utterly reverse cultural trends being donright perpetrated by businesses who benefit from it.

You're fighting the instinctual human nature to do the easy thing rather than whats perceived to be far harder.

Its an uphill battle for both people who are overweight and for people trying to save overweight family and friends from themselves.

edited 25th Mar '13 5:57:37 PM by Midgetsnowman

I don't expect the government to take care of my sister. I don't want the government to take care of my sister. I have told her the same things I have said in this thread. Of course, me being little sister I was anything but gentle.

I know it hurts her feelings when she tries to give me her clothes she's outgrown and they're still several sizes too big for me. I know she doesn't like to go swimming with me because of how the looks she gets in her suit aren't as nice as what I get in mine. But I have no pity for her. She has me as a resource and instead she rather be jealous. She's stupid.

And she will probably always be overweight and continue to have health problems because she rather watch tv and eat crap than just take things in moderation and go for a walk occasionally.

If she wants to do that fine. But as I told her to her face she's given up her right to bitch about how fat she is or how she can't wear clothes like me.

EDIT: no one can save you but yourself. That is the problem. It is not my job to bail out people who are too selfish to take control over their own lives. If they don't care, no one else will. No one can make you do anything you don't want to do.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:06:50 PM by Gabrael

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Uh... you might actually be part of the problem, without realising it. How long have you been competing with each-other to whatever extent, now (all sibs compete in different ways)? (Well, probably all your life. ) Subconsciously, she might be doing the opposite of you, because that's her thing to do to not be like you.

We... are very strange creatures. By reacting the way you do to her, you might just be giving her what she expects, so she tunes out the actual message and/or feel reassured that life is "normal" if you react like anticipated. <shrugs> Even if she's not aware that that's what she's doing.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:13:33 PM by Euodiachloris

This. if I had a sister like Gabrael, I'd ignore her out of sheer spite in all likelihood.

@Gabrael: no offense meant, I am seriously considering your advice. But..when someone that close to you says stuff like that over and over..my experience with having a sister is when she hits buttons she knows she can press to get me mad..eventually I just clam up and start doing things specifically to piss her off myself.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:15:03 PM by Midgetsnowman

Why do (some) people act like the govt. wants to ban (the whole thing)?

They're just trying to ban (too much) soda in single servings. It's not even an outright ban. More of a discouragement.

Also, I've been wondering if it's possible to pass junk food tax laws wherein taxes increase the bigger the serving size or package.

It would help a lot if big bags of junk food come out at around the same price as small bags of junk food.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Fighteer: true enough I did volunteer for it. Still... ended up being not what I imagined. Maybe it's just ADA though.

Anyway sorry about my earlier posts folks. It's been a long stressful day.

I don't bring it up. She does.

She told me she wanted to do Insanity because a coworker wanted to do it, I offered to give it to her if she wanted. Our brother does it too. She said it would interfere with her Grey's Anatomy.

I don't talk to my family unless they talk first. But when she comes to me crying because she's got high blood pressure and I tell her working out and eating better would help, it's on her.

She loves to break people down to make herself feel better, like putting her feet on my back when doing push ups or telling me I look like a whore when I'm about to get paid to be Lara Croft for the local game store. Our brother is pretty fit too. She gives him shit. She gives my boyfriend shit. After enough of that self destructive outburst anyone can lose their paitence.

If she just kept her mouth shut so would I. But after the last time she cried on my shoulder over a guy calling her fat, I have no choice but to say, "Yeah. You are. And you're a heart attack risk too. What are you going to do about it?"

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

You don't. You can't make people care about anything. The best way (I see) to handle something like this—

• Educate people, but don't expect that to do the trick. Learning how to read nutrition facts and eyeball serving size is great. Knowing about how ads target you psychologically is also great. Seeing people with diabetes? Not great to see, but effective. But just knowing things isn't going to get you there.
• Make success easier. This means bringing back dodgeball and tag and whatnot at recess for the kids, making gym memberships tax-deductible, shit like that. This also includes making healthy food more affordable. Is it possible to just walk in and grab healthy food on the cheap? Sure, if you know what you're looking for. But a lot of healthy or healthier options are more expensive or just as expensive as their unhealthy cousins. For any given person to be able to walk into (say) the soup aisle and seeing "Oh hey, the low sodium soup is 20 cents cheaper than the regular" would go further than just being told "All you have to do is know what to get and you can get it cheap," even while knowing what these cheap options are.
• Make failure more difficult. This can mean either or both reducing the temptation by limiting advertisement and portion size, and banning or regulating those problematic things in the first place. Both this and making success easier also means taking advantage of psychological quirks many humans have. You'll eat less if your plate looks more full. Seeing healthy food before eating junk food helps to turn you off of it.
• Be malleable. When we (as a society) seem to be lagging behind in one aspect, put more effort into it. Education could be better, but it's far and away better utilized than the other two options which seem practically nonexistent.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:42:09 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Gabrael you brought up a good example of how most overweight and obese people have severe issues that are compounding their physical problems.

20 bucks your sister has overwieght friends who self affirm each other. 40 bucks says she doesn't even realize her eating and activity habits will be reflected in her kid.

Wulf, we took dodgeball and tag out of the classroom because kids weren't getting healthy, they were getting hurt. We didn't get rid of PE. We changed forms. In fact, many people tried to intergrate a variety of activities including Yoga. Parents complained that they were teaching their kids Hinduism. So almost no school does it anymore.

"Oh wait. She doesn't have a... Forget what I said, don't catch the preggo. Just wear her hat." - Question Marc

That Insanity workout looks interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/too-much-tea-causes-unusual-bone-disease-222359924.html

> A 47-year-old Michigan woman developed a bone disease rarely seen in the U.S. after she drank a pitcher of tea made from at least 100 tea bags daily, for 17 years, researchers report.

Oh Lord, do NOT drink that much tea per day.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

I'm mostly drawing on my memories of middle and high school where we basically did get rid of PE. Things may have changed in the... 4-ish years I've been out of highschool, but back then it was basically "stretch for 5 minutes, then entertain yourself for 55. Play basketball if you want, or go sit in the bleachers and chat." We had occasional days where we'd play kickball or whatever for the whole hour, but for the most part, PE was a mandatory class that wasn't mandatory in the slightest. Middle school, we did have actual PE most days, mostly just pushups and walking laps around the football field. Even so, roughly half the time, we reverted to the "entertain yourself for an hour" form.

As for injuries during childhood games— Sure, kids got hurt, but without knowing the statistics and types of injuries, I can't say whether banning them from schools was the way to go. In part because it's one of those "They'll just do it when they go home anyway" things. I know we did.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:59:44 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

@Polarstern, you're right on both counts.

@Wulf, my son is in Kindergarden. The kids have awesome physical education. And Arkansas is a damn poor state but we have state insurance for anyone 18 and under which includes health screenings. The school requires them before every year.

Yes, dodgeball and tag were taken out due to the bullying and injuries. Dance and calesthenics were put in anyway as well as more regulations on playground equiptment.

And restricting advertising cuts close to violaiting first ammendment rights. You have to be careful how it's done. There is a difference between false or misleading advertising and then trying to get a product to say how bad it is when people should already know it's junk.

I learned how to read nutrition ingredients in 5th grade as a chemistry lesson.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

So did a lot of people. That doesnt necessarily mean they make an automatic connection of that data to anything meaningful.

Wulf, there is a thing called liability. People sue now. Schools can't afford their insurance.

And you do realize that again, and again, that a lot of what you're saying was proposed by Ms. Obama and people struck it down as being too invasive of the individual rights.

And that does nothing to all these adults that are at risk. And as Gabrael pointed out, it doesn't help the kids if they come home to a house of junk.

And as I and others have pointed out, healthy food isn't as expensive as people keep making it out to be.

"Oh wait. She doesn't have a... Forget what I said, don't catch the preggo. Just wear her hat." - Question Marc

So Midget, if people only forget what they've learned what do you propose?

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Freedom of speech doesn't*

apply to companies. Besides, we do it for cigarettes and alcohol all the time. You'll never see a TV ad for Marlboro again, and Bud Light only advertises on channels not aimed toward kids. And yes, there's a difference between false and misleading advertising and forcing Doritos to say "This is bad for you." What I mean is restricting where and how much they can be advertised, not (necessarily) making them list off why they're bad for you.

As for reading nutrition facts- And I personally used to read them all the time as a kid because I was an avid reader. But you and I aren't everyone, and that you were taught to in 5th grade doesn't mean everyone is, or anyone else retained it. Hell, I was taught how money works once in 5th grade and never again. Wasn't so much as given a refresher on what the difference between credit and debit was, or how taxes work, or how to balance a checkbook until Civics/Free Enterprise in 11th grade. What I'm saying is, teaching something once and then never again isn't education.

That's where the other 3 bolded items in that list come in. Education to help the kids. Tax breaks for the adults. Restricting advertising helps both. And for the 50th time, I'm not saying healthy food is expensive. I'm saying it would be easier to make healthy food cheaper than to point out all these health options that are cheap "If you know where to look." It is better for everyone if, in addition to the already cheap and health full-blown alternatives such as rice crackers and whatnot, that the somewhat more healthy versions of unhealthy food are ALSO CHEAPER. If already I've decided "fuck, I want some chips," the existence celery isn't going to change my mind or sate my craving. BUT if I go to the chip aisle and see that for half the price, I can get some baked chips with half the sodium, fat, and calories of the regular ones? That will probably sway me to at least get those instead. Perfect is not the enemy of good.

edited 25th Mar '13 7:19:49 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Then we need to throw away our entire school system because that's exactly how it is formatted.

And businesses do have some first ammendment rights. (Consider how businesses are somehow claiming religious rights against supporting contraception.) You can argue all you want but we have a precident for it.

EDIT: oh and we tried to ban junk food a way we ban cigarettes and booze. People complained and Bloomberg's motion was thrown out.

Compare that to the way we limited carton sizes of tobacco products.

edited 25th Mar '13 7:17:00 PM by Gabrael

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

FYI, the expensive healthy foods may not be healthy - especially if we're talking about sugar-y yogurt cups and sweet nut-fruit bars and all those too yummy supposedly healthy cereals.

Most really healthy foods are not expensive. They're in the veggie and fruit sections.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Its not about forgetting what they learned.

Its that I'm implying many people will NEVER make the connection to begin with between interpreting that data in a classroom setting and a real life setting.

All they saw was a bunch of confusing numbers and words with no real life application.

edited 25th Mar '13 7:17:51 PM by Midgetsnowman

Then what do you suggest?

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Indirect advertising: soap operas have been used to teach before now (heck, even by companies). <shrugs> If a main character has a battle with diabetes and gets all the angst and development (including slips and trips with resulting scares) as she battles with the change in lifestyle, weight-loss she has to undergo, etc. And it's actually depicted what she does to eventually succeed...? That hits home better than a contents list. And, also adds the message "you might not succeed 100% all the time, but... it's not the end of the world if you succeed 60% all the time, so you don't have to give up".

All part of the cultural shift.

edited 25th Mar '13 7:30:11 PM by Euodiachloris

and certainly works better than how diets on TV are always implied to be these things that either are amazingly eassy to go through with or they make falling off the diet wagon seem like no big deal.