The Classic Who (Re)watch Thread!

Why angry? Not allowed to dislike the Mc Coy era, am I?

For the record, I never like it when the Doctor just breezes in and asserts his vast knowledge and is immediately accepted. Generally speaking he has to earn the trust of whoever he's working with or has UNIT credentials to back him up, or even the psychic paper! But there are times when a plot shortcut is more egregious than others. Remembrance is one of those instances. The production team are eager to get the episode rolling and they don't want to "waste time" by having the Doctor establish himself, so they just paper over that and keep moving. That's a typical lapse in story logic that plagues the Mc Coy era.

It's my choice to play along with the fiction I'm watching or not to play along. Some stories make it harder than others, and Remembrance makes it really difficult to play along.

edited 30th Dec '13 7:18:57 AM by andersonh1

You call it "lapse in logic", I call it "getting to the plot inside of the first episode for once."

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

I don't entirely disagree. Clearly it's a narrative shortcut to just to get the story moving. But it's not a good shortcut. It doesn't work well. I'd rather have seen the story start with the Doctor already in place, having worked with Gilmore's group for some time, or something like that. I'd have found that much more believable than what we got.

edited 30th Dec '13 7:22:24 AM by andersonh1

It's entertaining, but it's utterly implausible.

This post has been powered by avenging fury and a balanced diet.

...it occurs to me that this version of the Doctor is, apparently, openly telepathic in a way previous ones haven't been. Which on the one hand leads to a plausible explanation but on the other leads to disturbing implications.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Not implications that would be very far out of character for Seven, though.

But, yeah, for me, it's always welcome when we don't have to spend the first episode on a 'they don't trust the Doctor' subplot that doesn't go anywhere.

It'd be out of character for this version of the manipulative Seven. For a later Seven, about the time of Head Games or so, it'd be perfectly in character. But the character we see right now is only making tentative steps towards being the great manipulator his fame would have him be.

A lot of the ideas we have about Seven have been handed down from the seven or so years he was a books character.

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Season One.

Season Two.

Season Three.

Season Four.

Season Five.

Season Six.

So part 2.

Is the implication supposed to be that he hid the Hand of Omega there sometime shortly before Unearthy Child? Because I can't say I care for that idea, if so. I prefer to believe that little stop was only significant because it's where he met Ian and Barbara.

Also, it's a damned good thing Ace left the house when she did. If she'd stayed any longer, she would've had to watch a Hartnell episode, and the last time something like that happened around here, the earth was almost conquered by a sentient meta-narrative. That's the last thing we need when we're already dealing with two factions of Daleks. Plus, it would only encourage unnoun to go all Faction Paradox flavoured Eruditorum on us. I'll be pretty surprised if I find that Sandifer didn't draw attention to that scene, at any rate.

So… we have a pretty clear parallel being drawn between the Renegade Daleks and Nazisms. Where does that leave the Imperial Daleks, then? Are they the Soviets or something?

And just finished watching the second half.

This might be a result of me going in partially spoiled, but the Davros here is easily the third best version of Davros I've seen. And now, for some reason, I feel the need to tell you all that I've seen a total of three versions of Davros.

Like, they are a pair of genuinely surprisings twists centred around Davros here. But what they result in… Well, either way, the Renegade Daleks have the much more credible villain in charge. Until the Renegade Dalek leader just explodes because it can't think well under pressure, of course. But anyway. I started thinking 'wow, no wonder Terry Nation didn't like the Dalek Emperor', and ended up thinking 'wow, a little girl is a more credible villain than this version of Davros.' It's shame; the other two Davros I've seen were great, but now I think I understand why his reputation among the fanbase is a tad checkered. I'm ignoring the underexposed coolness that is the Special Weapons Dalek, of course. That thing deserves it's reputation.

But anyway, what else do we having going on here? Ace's little flirtation with that guy who turned out to be evil. Wasn't feeling it, I'm afraid. Ace found a 'no coloureds' sign in his house in part 2, and then in part 3 she's agreeing to go on a date him. And then she completely turns on him because it turned out he was working for the Daleks, despite the fact that he didn't realize he was working for the Daleks. So what am I supposed to take away from that? That Ace is okay with racism but is morally offended by unwitting pawns?

All three cliffhangers resolutions in this are lame, by the way, but special mention has to be given to the third one, where the Imperial Daleks choose to land their ship at the school and then trek over to Totter's Lane for no clear reason other than momentarily making the Doctor think he'd screwed up.

So I guess this is turning out to be pretty negative. Maybe I'm be more charitable once I've had some more time to think it over. There were certainly some good lines, like UMLIMITED RICE PUDDING and Ace being well aware of the Time Lords' infinite capacity for portention.

And I'm still not sure how the whole warring Daleks factions thing fits in with the Nazism parallel.

He's a boarder. They mention this explicitly. The sign is saying that whoever owns the boarding house won't rent to black people.

People might've been pretty racist in the 1960s but I don't think anyone hung "No Coloured" signs in their places of residence. I'm pretty sure it was just for businesses.

She thought he was lying, and in any case the guy was still on the side of the baddies. That he didn't know that the baddies were Daleks doesn't change the fact that he betrayed the military unit the Doctor was working with.

edited 1st Jan '14 7:50:47 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Wait, he was a boarder? I don't remember that at all. I feel like they should've made that more clear because the 'no coloured' sign was confusing for me as well.

I still think the extended version of the scene between Joseph Marcell and The Doctor is the best thing in this serial.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

/didn't notice anything about the place being a boarding house either.

I mean, I'm not doubting you went you say it's there, I just didn't catch any of it.

Indeed.

edited 2nd Jan '14 4:39:16 AM by unnoun

Episode two, roughly 5:30 in.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Oh, okay then.

…

Well, if his mother runs the boarding house, he's still not exactly blameless.

Why? I mean, Ace knows nothing about his exact relationship with his mom. For all she knows he's tried to talk to her about it. I suspect, though, that the idea that he might be racist is eating at her and discovering he's a traitor is what finally breaks her interest. I mean, notice how she reacts most strongly when he starts rambling about making England safe for "insiders" or whatever.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

There are some nice ideas in Remembrance, but someone needed to delete scenes from the story like the Dalek waiting a good minute before blasting its way out of the basement (perhaps it was waiting patiently for the Doctor to let it out?), or the Doctor burying the Hand of Omega casket complete with mock funeral. What exactly does that accomplish? Yeah, he wants the Daleks to find it, but the villains know it's a weapon rather than a casket, so what's the point of the funeral, complete with officiating priest?

Davros as emperor is a nice bait and switch though, and the special weapons Dalek is just fun to watch.

He needs to make it look like he's trying to hide it so the Daleks are convinced they've taken it from him.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Mhm. Y'know, when I saw that grave marked with an Omega, I thought "wow, Doctor. That's making it a tad obvious, isn't it?"

Of course, the idea was to ensure the Daleks didn't miss it, but he could've standed to be a bit more subtle about it.

...Scenes should be deleted from Remembrance but not Inferno?

edited 2nd Jan '14 3:16:32 PM by unnoun

Well Inferno was actually the best serial. Three really had the best serials, I'm surprised there isn't more of him on the list.

No.

So, Cal, are you devoting your life to being contrary now?

Its a valid choice, I suppose.

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