Tropes vs Women in Video Games

There's nothing wrong with Kickstarter for something like this. People who think this is a good idea can give money, and other people don't. How is that suspect?

It's suspect because there's no way to really guarantee she'll use all that for the movie set. No collateral, no loan, she already had a vid camera anyway, it's not like she needed tens of thousands of dollars to do this. She very well could be scamming.

And Youtube comments are just comments, if she doesn't like them, she can just ignore them. It's not like she's getting death threats mailed to her or left on her doorstep, after all. People are just . . . animals, online, sometimes.

It's suspect because she got far more money than she asked for or needed? Anybody who uses Kickstarter could be scamming. A large number of people who use Kickstarter do so not because they need the money, but because they don't want to pay for things themselves. And comments are just comments - until the point where the comments are ALL threats, abuse, and insults, and entire sites are making organized efforts to flag the Kickstarter as 'terrorism and vandalize everything related to her. So it is like she's getting death threats and such mailed to her - because that's essentially what happened.

I don't think it's a scam.

I'm actually a fan of some of Sarkeesians previous works, she gets really in-depth in her research, and some of her more prominent works are used at an academic level in gender studies.

I'm not so into it that I'd have donated, but I think it will be an entertaining video to watch. She is really good at her analysis of female characters in media, and I look forward to seeing this project when it's done. I really like in-depth female characters who are more than just window dressing in my games, and spreading awareness that the current trends need to be changed makes for progress in that regard.

tldr: I like her previous work and look forward to seeing how this pans out.

About the first point, every kickstarter ever really COULD be a scam. Just because something is suspect doesn't mean it's bad, it means you don't know and there's a chance for a scam. As to the second, sounds like some groups need a few FBI visits and some meetings in back alleys with some very pissed off and well armed anti-sexists.

Actually, they really should be visited by the FBI. Screaming terrorist and death threating her just for trying to enlighten people to a woman's place in the video game world? Making an example of her to put the fear of God into every other feminist trying to lighten the pight of women? Yeah, that's cyber terrorism. These people screaming at her truly are terrorists, and the worst of them should be sent to whatever passes for Gitmo these days.

edited 19th Jun '12 5:30:50 PM by Journeyman

I wouldn't go that far to where we need to start dragging people to prison. That's a bit much.

What they did was rude as fuck, yes, and very disrespectful, but if anything it just highlights exactly what the problem is in the first place. Think of it as promoting awareness of misogyny in gaming in its own way.

So, what exactly is she trying to do.

Why is what she is doing 'suspect'?

And why does she need to do interviews and such?

Which is as needless as another listing off of tropes associated with gaming, considering the popular view of gamers, even to this day somewhat, is whiny 30 year old men who couldn't ever get a single girl to even go out with them, living in their parents' basement. You would expect such a group to have an utter hatred of women, no? It really is pathetic these days, and the ONLY reason I'm not actually going to try getting the FBI involved in cases like this is because we don't need the government grabbing more fuel for their anti-anything they don't approve of legislation. You know they'd use this sort of stuff to shove another piece of shit like SOPA down our throats.

What she's doing isn't suspect, it's just her way of funding it that's got people in a twist.

She's trying to enlargen awareness about the role of women in video games. I don't think she's doing interviews, but really, the only way she's going to strike a blow for girls playing video games is to interview women in the field and get more women interested in the art.

edited 19th Jun '12 5:47:10 PM by Journeyman

Her way of funding it is part of what she is doing. If her way of funding it is suspect for some reason, then what she is doing is, by extension, 'suspect'.

So, I'll rephrase.

'Why is her way of funding "suspect?"'

She isn't doing interviews. But according to some of the comments above, some people believe she should. So... Why does she need to do interviews?

edited 19th Jun '12 5:51:59 PM by Dragon573

^^

Why does it really matter? Kickstarter is all about people putting money into things they want to see. I don't see why it should bug anybody if Anita is going for funding through kickstarter. If other people are willing to pay and fund it, why is it a big deal?

I just don't see why there's contention regarding anything on kickstarter, the entire point is about people voting with their money for the things that they want. If people were donating tons of money to a project I thought was absolute garbage, well, more power to them I suppose. Nobody is twisting my arm to donate, and nobody will be twisting my arm to consume the fruits of that project.

She used Kickstarter, and got a massive amount of money ($158,922 out of the $6,000 she asked for). This made a lot of people angry.

edited 19th Jun '12 5:57:29 PM by Anfauglith

Kickstarter is a way of getting lots and lots of people involved. It's great for funding huge projects for tens of thousandof dollars, but it's very easy, with everyone able to donate, to get more than you need. If you put up a project with only a small request, you still run a high chance of being given ten times your request. So, you make some small project that doesn't merit all that money, and pocket the rest. Barely not a scam, if that doesn't cross the line.

As for why she should do interviews? The best way to solve a problem is to show the cause. Just cataloging a bunch of tropes does nothing for that, it only highlights the problem. It's ALREADY commonly known, and has been talked to death about by other commentators. NOW it's time for change. If we show women that they have a good place in the industry, with strong potential, then more will be willing to join the fields involved in game design, and bring a female perspective to things. Hopefully the writing would improve in games, and we'd get more wellrounded characters.

The interviews would show women that others are already doing well in the field, and talking to the right people can shed light on why characters are so shoddy.

If you need six grand, you ask an organization. You DON'T go out with your hand out asking everybody on the street to support your cause. Kickstarter in itself isn't the best thing in the world, as helpful as it can be.

edited 19th Jun '12 6:01:16 PM by Journeyman

Meh. Anita's previous work pretty much show's she's not the right person to be doing this. Look at her Lego and Christmas video's, and you'll see what I mean. Too say nothing of her Bayonetta video.

Based on what I read, a lot of people got really angry that a woman would dare question their sacred games, and then she got lots of money from the resulting publicity.

Except that Kickstarter is good for getting public support and opinion. Kickstarters don't get far more money than they need except when people feel that the money is going to a good cause and extra money will help more. People aren't going to give money to something that doesn't require anywhere near as much money as is asked for, so most scamming attempts would either provide virtually no money or be easily exposed after the fact.

"after the fact" is the key phrase. Scammers wouldn't need to do a repeat if they got enough the first time. At least enough to invest in another scam somewhere else.

And the sexism really needs to stop, period. It's idiotic, like racism. I'm not even on about the emotional issues, how about the logistical ones? The sexes are roughly even in population, with there being a few more percentage points in women than men. You're really going to hate on roughly half the human race? Seriously? May as well just off yourself now, because if you're heinous enough about it, you won't live long.

edited 19th Jun '12 6:32:40 PM by Journeyman

I think a large amount of those sexist remarks are aimed towards (what they believe her to be) extreme feminists who don't quite know what they're talking about.

Maybe she should consider talking about the treatment of women in the gaming industry instead of something that has been discussed repeatedly.

I heard of one such incident, but I am gonna be cautious about discussing it here because it may end up locking the thread or derail it.

I think I'll stick with pegging this all as a really disturbing episode of misogyny. This level of passionate defensiveness betells of more than just fatigue, and seeing as passionate defensiveness is about the least virulent thing that's popped up. . .

Considering she missed the point of Bayonetta entirely (Since someone said something about her ripping into bayonetta) I can't take her seriously, even if she does want to bring up a serious subject.

edited 20th Jun '12 1:00:05 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Here's the Bayonetta video in question.

Had she spent those 4-minutes in the video talking about women being groped in subways, and how huge a problem it is, instead of talking about a game she doesn't get, it would've raised her credibility.

Why not? If people are willing to keep forking over money when she clearly has an established target, then I don't see the problem. That's an issue for the people donating money to work out, not people on the sidelines not donating.

That said, it might be best if you had the option to make your kickstarter immediately close when you tipped past the amount you specified in your request.

I don't get why Kickstarter allowed this. They said they don't do charities or awareness campaigns, but yet this thing managed to get 150,000 bucks of internet money somehow.

Well, this isn't quite either of what you mentioned. It is an unreleased webseries.

I don't see how it's any different than the kickstarter campaign for the soldier who wants to splice together all the existing footage of the battle of Sadr City for an in-depth documentary and analysis of the battle and a follow-up with veterans of it.

Web series, documentary, whatever. I thought the entire point of Kickstarter was that if people want it, they'll vote with their money. And people obviously want Anita to make this series, or they wouldn't part with their own money to make it happen. I don't see what's so scammy, offensive, or illegitimate about it.

A web series that raises awareness for feminist issues.

edited 20th Jun '12 1:56:57 PM by Kev-O