Black Panther

Lex Luthor is in the Original Trilogy?

In the original version of "A New Hope", he was the crime lord that Han Solo owed money to. But when he started producing "Return of the Jedi", George Lucas flew around Tattooine really fast to turn back time and erase him from the film.

To this day, Lucas claims that Jabba was part of his original vision all along.

edited 18th May '18 4:52:52 PM by TobiasDrake

So, I was having a good giggle at the Dan Browned section of an internet show because of a comment made on another thread about it, when I happened on a reference to Wakanda that made me think. Said internet show claimed that Wakanda was overreliant on vibranium for trade, and the opposition to this is obvious - Wakanda does its best not to trade vibranium and has survived for centuries without trade.

But that just brought a different issue to my attention.

How on Earth does a country evolve that's completely self-sufficient with no trade at all? Most MED Cs (which Wakanda should be, considering its technological level) aren't self-sufficient for food, for instance. Of what we see of Wakanda, we see forests and high rise buildings mainly. We do see some agriculture with the Border tribes, but they maintain a force of rhinos, which would put even more strain on the grain supply. Wakanda is tiny and densely populated, precisely the opposite of a country that's self-sufficient in food, and of all of Vibranium's many properties (weaponry, armour, healing) the only impact we're shown on plants is making the weird drugs that only the king is allowed to take.

They’re probably using their land super efficiently. Because vibranium helps the soil/vibranium tools/irrigation.

In the original comics (by which I mean the 60s Jack Kirby/Stan Lee stuff) it was said that Wakanda's immense wealth came from selling very small, harmless amounts of vibranium to foreign governments. And since Wakanda is the one place on the planet where you can actually get vibranium, the country had complete control over the supply and demand and could charge whatever they wanted for it.

So it's possible they could have used small amounts for trading purposes. That might be how Howard Stark got the small amount he used to make Cap's shield during WW 2. Poor bastard probably paid through the nose for it.

I believe it was also mentioned in an episode of Agents of SHIELD had a vibranium-reinforced holding cell, which would further imply that Wakanda sometimes sells or trades it.

edited 18th May '18 5:09:05 PM by comicwriter

In that case I'm hugely surprised that they didn't get invasion attempts by colonialist who said things like "if the natives found scraps of vibranium in this place, then we could dig up loads".

(Though I will give a pass to Captain America since that film was made nearly a full decade before they even concieved that they would be making a Black Panther film).

I absolutely CAN write the first generation of superhero movies off as trash. Because I wasn't a fan back then, so I have no obligation whatsoever to suddenly change my mind. Some of it is at least watchable trash, but there is no denying that the third wave of Superhero movies has finally reached a level of quality that I feel comfortable calling them "good movies".

I don't think they mentioned that Wakanda doesn't engage in any kind of trade with outsiders at all. The country does make itself known to the outside world as a developing nation, so they could've acquired whatever necessary grain and resources they couldn't make themselves through traditional trade. We also see some Wakandans wearing Western-style shirts, suits, and backpacks, and there's everything about Shuri's own taste in fashion and memes, so while they're mostly self-sufficient they're clearly allowing outsiders' goods to some extent.

edited 18th May '18 5:53:41 PM by AlleyOop

Let me put it like this, and use numeric ratings (I don't actually use these in real life, but this is being more abstract) - there are far fewer 1's and 2's nowadays (mainly only coming from the DCEU) than in the past, with its Steels and Punishers. Most of what comes out nowadays superwise is a 6 or 7, maybe even the odd 8.

But in the past you used to also get some 9's and 10's, even if they have faded with time. And the MCU has basically killed the 9's and the 10's.

That doesn't explain how they've gone so long without being discovered, especially during the scramble for Africa.

edited 18th May '18 5:54:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

Illusions, a long-played conspiracy by the Border Tribe, and showing just enough to make them think that it's not worth a hard fight. Also killing whoever does make it in with the exception of Klaue. After all, there are parts of the Amazon Rainforest that still remain unexplored, now with Brazilian government protection.

The Brazilian rainforest is not right next to the Congo.

Wakanda is also very mountainous and hard to traverse.

The MCU has killed the 9 and 10s? Only in a sense that we aren't as fast giving out 9 and 10s anymore because it has raised the bar so high.

The MCU formula guarentees a basic level of quality but it also prevents a film from achieving true greatness. I would actually use Black Panther as an example of a film that's so close to being truly amazing but certain formulaic elements tie it down.

Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU. But it's also slightly depressing for me.

"True greatness" is such a bullshit term. It's utterly meaningless in nature.

Yeah gotta say I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that there were no good superhero films before the MCU. Even if you discount the Dark Knight Trilogy I'd still hold films like X2 and Spider-Man 2 up as top tier superhero flicks.

It's subjective, not meaningless. There's a difference. It has meaning to people in different ways.

The way it sounded made it come off like "true greatness" is some kind of objective qualifier.

Well, any sort of quality is subjective really.

Nah. Sound volume/mixing, lighting, how clear or complex dialogue is- there’s objectivity to those sort of quality determinations.

Its a mix.

You can't call a lot of things absolute crap but there are things out there that are indeed absolute crap.

I mean, that more or less has to be what they're doing. Before Ross was brought to Wakanda, literally one person on the entire planet had actually been inside Wakanda and knew the truth, and that's only because he had inside help to do it.

The only other guy who knew about Wakanda had only heard about it in stories. They guard their shit tightly.

By and large the MCU is a series of well made action/adventure/comedies, that rely on well worn tropes and character types.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying (that good craftsmanship isn't a matter of pure opinion)n but I'm not sure "objective" is the word I would use.

Don't mind me though, this is mostly just semantics.

There are plenty of high-tech forms of food production that require far less land than traditional agriculture, and some that even work indoors. We haven't developed the technology yet because we have enough land that it's not worth the effort, but Wakanda would have both the need (due to their small size) and the ability (with the energy production abilities of vibranium).

edited 18th May '18 9:36:06 PM by Discar