The Occupy Movement in 2012

Bringing this thread back from this de-rail seems to be harder than expected... let's try this:

Anyone else hearing nothing but news about how the world is going to end horrible the mandatory government funding cuts that take effect in 5 months are going to be? The Democrats are saying that the original vote was bi-partisan and in Republican hands (all the Republicans have to do is allow the Democrats to raze taxes on the wealthy, right?) while the Republicans say they were forced into it.

Seems like a good opportunity for the Occupy movement to get back into the spotlight. They just need to use this opportunity to educate more people about the failings of the "top-down" approach.

What's the top-down approach? You mean regressive taxation?

I'm talking about the idea that "rich people create jobs" because they use their money in job-creating investments. This is the main argument for not raising taxes on certain portions of the wealthy.

Ask just about any economist and they will tell you that what creates jobs is demand, not supply. In other words, more jobs are created by a general populous who wants/demands/needs a variety of items (and can afford them) than a few people and companies whose wants/needs are relatively limited.

Some of the wealthy do give a lot of their money away to various charities to help people less well off than they are. But that only helps a portion of the economy and doesn't go to things that help people as a whole. I believe it would be better for that money to go to the government and be used for things like improved public transportation, infrastructure repairs, etc. Other than the obvious benefits of having cheaper general transport, repaired bridges, etc., you also put a number of people to work. Those people spend their money on items, more items are made, increased demand means more people are hired to make those items, etc.

The potential flaw to that strategy is if the companies making those items can keep up with demand without hiring more people or decide to hire people somewhere else. Too many companies are looking at their profits/bottom line without thinking about the effects of all that money not ending up in the huge market America represents.

My conclusion is this: The "top down" approach is not working. So let's try something else.

The other thing that people seem to forget is that Companies don't equal Rich People.

"Business is struggling because of all these taxes!"

No you asshole, you just don't want your own personal income tax raised. The taxes your company pays are something entirely different, and that should be obvious to everyone, but it isn't.

And of course, business is struggling because a select few runaway businesses (usually those owned by the "business is struggling, no taxes ever!" people) aggressively strangle the rest while enjoying record profits.

More importantly, there is only a tiny, tiny fraction of the 1% who are Entrepreneurs, and they aren't the richest, not by far.

The richest are bankers. Bankers who don't do shit.

Actually, the a number of the richest are Early Entrepreneurs. By that I mean the people who developed the basis for the technology and services we use today. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are two of the most visible, but there are others as well. H&R Block was founded by the Bloch brothers and part of an article I read was an interview with the owner of a storage company who made something like $625,000 a week (said article was posted somewhere in this thread).

I will agree that a number of top-income Bankers and investors fall under my own definition of "receive(d) too much money for the work they have accomplished." Though even a few of them have good hearts/heads on their shoulders and just got really lucky. Exhibit A: a small-scale investor who was one of the first people who invested in Amazon (he was also in the article as making about $125,000 a week), realizes just how lucky he got, and would be fine paying higher taxes.

The problem is, a lot of the people who built these first up companies DONT realize how much luck or other people played into it, and prefer a mental narrative where it was all them.

^

That isn't really a problem, the problem is the taxation.

I don't care if you were self-made or a silver spoon born guy like Trump who built an empire off of money from his dad, you need to pay your goddamn taxes, regardless of background or ego.