Batman General Discussion

We're going to make America GRODD again!!!

If Zur is supposed to be a foil to Bruce than that raises the question "what makes Bruce better or worse than Zur?"

If the answer is that Zur is just objectively better at helping Gotham, that's fine from a story telling perspective. There are lots of potential plot threads that could come from that. Maybe Zur gets destroyed/decommissioned and Bruce, now Batman again, has a question of confidence. Maybe ,Bruce takes on a new persona and gets back into detective work solving white collar crimes instead of the violent crime that Zur can handle. Maybe Bruce decides to leave Gotham for a time and travel the world and solve crimes that he couldn't because he was afraid to leave Gotham for too long.

If the answer is that Zur isn't better than Bruce for Gotham, that's also fine. There are a few interesting ideas that could come from that. I don't want to rehash the typical "you're crazy or don't understand human complexity or emotions." Maybe, Zur doesn't actually have the same drive that Bruce does. Without the same tragic backstory, maybe Zur actually become burned out. Maybe Zur actually starts to develop more human emotions and empathy and actually can't handle the level of darkness in Gotham and chooses to retire. In contrast, Bruce actually is more optimistic than he appears and sees hope for Gotham.

The thing is that no matter what route they choose to go down they need to start foreshadowing it sooner rather than later. If Bruce is going to be the better hero for Gotham than they should probably start exploring those factors so that it feels natural when the climax hits.

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Regarding different opinions regarding Bruce's wealth, I think there are a couple of different factors.

One that I have noticed rereading some old Batman comics, is that Bruce has gotten way way richer over time (except for right now which is an exception). Bruce started off as just a relatively well off individual. He wasn't one of the five richest men in the world like in some continuities and adaptions. He could afford a car and some gadgets but mostly stuck to the noir detective stuff. During the silver age, weird stuff would happen to him but Batman himself actually kept a weird but surprisingly modest arsenal. Now a days, he helps fund space satellites and can buy out companies without a second thought. It just feels a little bigger in scope and raises more questions.

If they can't think of anything else, the writers usually go with Lazarus Pit for situations like this.

Edited by Freshwater on Apr 14th 2024 at 10:47:06 AM

Considering the Joker is literally a cripple now and can't move his neck, I wonder what bullshit the writer will pull so he can still be used in future stories.

And how this will all factor into Joker's 20D chess master plan.

I think some people forget that Heroes are suppose to be Ideals

Just like how Superman is the Ideal of Power ' Power Corrupts but Clark's humble salt of the earth nature prevents that cause he is aware he isn't god as oppose to Lex'

Bruce and the Wayne's are suppose to be the Ideal of Wealth, Thomas is a self-made man but spent his time as Doctor and spending alot of time in charity works and setting up affordable clinics for Gotham's lower classes

Philanthropy is a key aspect of the Waynes legacy but either due to Disengagement 'The Writers find it boring or disillusionment 'The writers think its BS'

Bruce has been removed more and more from that type of circle.

like I said Bruce wasn't even really running his own company anymore for years

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I mean its basically why Bruce slid into Smartest guy on the planet role

"Quick we need a character whose smart to help this character solve the problem... X is to obscure and Y is to obvious we need a character readers will accept!"

BATMAN!

same principle but now change smart to has money

I could accept Bruce being the go too in a few fields but... What does Astrophysics and Atom smasher have to do with dealing with Criminals.

and then of course you had the Adam West shows where yep Bats had pretty much ANYTHING and EVERYTHING

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Apr 14th 2024 at 12:58:54 PM

So random thought I got while thinking about how I'd rewrite the rest of the Zur saga.

Where the hell is Two Face during all of this? Batman fighting his split personality and Two Face isn't involved?

Bruce Wayne as the ideal of wealth is kind of neat. Though that probably feels more evident with Thomas than Bruce. Ironically Thomas ends up being less self aggrandizing than Bruce is.

Also if Zur is a better Batman what exactlt was wrong with Thomas Batman Rise Batman again?

Yeah he had Bane running Gotham but IIRC they had the Joker and other crooks hypnotized flawlessly.

Why is Bruce the only person with the "correct" vision for Gotham when stuff like Joker War and Failsafe and Endgame happen on his watch?

Edited by FOFD on Apr 15th 2024 at 11:02:21 AM

That's the problem with a lot of these "deconstructive" stories we're getting with Batman. They keep pointing out the massive problems with Bruce but also aren't willing to actually go all the way and just retire him. So they have to contrive some bullshit about how he's the only one who's actually right despite all his numerous objective flaws and failures.

Do comic books still do editorial columns where the writers read what the readers think, or do I just tgreaten them over social media now has that concept been retired?

Edited by FOFD on Apr 15th 2024 at 11:21:14 AM

You know those started as a psych op right?

You know I was both sincerely asking and have no idea what a psych op is right?

Uhhhh, okay, so originally all those letters written to comic book writers, weren't actually written by real fans. They were all faked to advertise other comics.

Of course they got real later on.

Meh. As long as the letters written to the Archie Sonic comics, a few issues of Spider Man, and the letters to Robert Kirkman's TWD comics were real my childhood is still intact.

Rather ingenius I'd say. I've often felt when I was younger the best way to start my own forum/subreddit/proboards was to fake some initial 100 posts and generate hype. Way too much effort though.

Oh my god, someone else who enjoyed the Archie Sonic letters.

Hopefully the Mega Man as well.

I've talked to some friends about, and they have stated the issue is more the scale of Bruce's wealth.

It's the escalation where he's not simply rich, but a billonare who can buy up a whole country if he wants.

So billionaires are bad, millionaires are better?

I believe we've talked about how you can't become a billionaire honestly in the politics thread, although with all the super tech in the DC universe (including left over alien tech) I think there is a possibility for Waynetech to legitimately get that rich, especially with his connections to other rich dudes in the league.

Yeah, but than you just loop back around to the thing I mentioned earlier. That sooner or later you just have to admit that Bruce is only a Scrooge McDuck-esque kajillionaire because being that cartoonishly rich provides an easy Hand Wave for him affording all the Batman stuff and funding for other heroes. It's basically the same as "he's an alien" for Superman or Martian Manhunter; ultimately it's just a Necessary Weasel for the comic's premise to exist, because otherwise Batman wouldn't be anywhere near the powerful and important figure he is in the DCU.

I think that like Joker God discussed a few pages the wealth escalation come as a result of DC insecure need to reassure that Batman hit at the same level as the strongest League members. If you want to do that, you need Batman to have lots of things like a robot that can take out the League, and if you want to justify that, he have to be one of the richest men in the world.

Edited by Smoker130 on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:20:11 PM

It's not that being a millionaire instead of a billonaire is 'better' for Bruce, but in a sense it makes him easier to write in an urban context where he goes up against mob bosses and random weirdos with knives who scar themselves.

The issue of the JL level weaponry doesn't have to be solved through Wayne financing it all, a lot of it may be just alien stuff Bruce took from his adventures with the League.

Plus you could make funding more of a group effort.

Having other wealthy guys like Mr Terrific, Green Arrow, and Ted Kord all contribute funds instead of just Bruce paying for it all.

Having the Justice League/Titans fund themselves through everyone chipping in, particularly the multiple wealthy members would certainly be a lot smarter than just having it all go on the Bat-Credit Card.

Agreed. It would take that kind of pressure off Bruce as well.

Hell, most people would probably think it wasn't weird for rich dudes to fund super heroes, so it's a good form of plausible deniability.

I'm Batman? That's ridiculous! Yes, I provide some income for the Justice League, but so does Ted Kord, Oliver Queen, and Michael Holt? Do you think they are super heroes too?

Has Bruce ever used his wealth to clean up Gotham's police force or are they that corrupt?

I think they're supposed to be just that corrupt, despite Gordon and a few others.

Well right now Ollie is funding the justice league Or he was before it disbanded and the hall of justice got taken over by waller.

Making Bruce "only" a millionaire would probably make that less of an issue too.

It's one thing to struggle to fix society if you can only afford to donate a million or two every year. It's life changing money for some but it's not enough to change every life in the city.

But, once you have billions or trillions than it becomes another matter entirely. At that point Bruce can basically give an honest job to every thug in the city. He could lobby so hard that Arkham becomes a top class rehabilitation center. He could pay an army of reporters and accountants to watch every politic deal to make sure the city is clean. And pay for protection for all of them (etc, etc).

I think making Bruce just a little wealthy solves both problems. It can show Bruce doing things as Bruce and explain why he also needs to be Batman to also help.