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LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

 14201 Meklar, Wed, 16th Oct '13 5:12:09 PM from Milky Way Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
[up] Does it count as murder if it only lasts for three days?

(Pagetopper, I know, I know.)

 14202 joeyjojo, Wed, 16th Oct '13 5:18:37 PM from The Magic Land Of Oz Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
America! Hell Yeah!
How did you know when you were gonna page topper?

They're always nasty surprises for me >_<
Touch the eagle. Taste the eagle.
 14203 Muramasan 13, Wed, 16th Oct '13 5:30:10 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up][up] Maybe not, but it definitely counts as coldblooded torture, considering how painful crucifixions were.
Smile for me!
 14204 Tobias Drake, Wed, 16th Oct '13 5:33:28 PM from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Black Dragon
Given Paul's assertion that Jesus rising from the dead was the equivalent of what happens to everyone when they die - ascending to heaven - I say it still counts. The resurrection doesn't do anything. Christ died, then three days later, he went to heaven.

edited 16th Oct '13 5:33:52 PM by TobiasDrake

"Elfive, you might want to get your memory checked. I said sin is like griefing or not changing the oil in your car. If you want to use the fish metaphor, It's more like giving your of age kids a car with an owners manual and everything and then trying to help them fix it when it breaks because of what they did to it."

I find it very amusing that you call for another person to remind oneself when you seem to have forgotten the countless arguments against the validity of the Original Sin as an excuse.

 14206 Pykrete, Wed, 16th Oct '13 6:10:54 PM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
For instance, the fact that it wasn't even a concept mentioned anywhere until long after Jesus died. The early church came up with Original Sin like third century or something as a fuck you to the Gnostics.

Hell, eating the apple wasn't even considered a sin for a really long time. Just a dumbass move.

edited 16th Oct '13 6:27:33 PM by Pykrete

 14207 Meklar, Wed, 16th Oct '13 7:31:45 PM from Milky Way Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
How did you know when you were gonna page topper?
X % 25 == 0 is not exactly a difficult formula.

Given Paul's assertion that Jesus rising from the dead was the equivalent of what happens to everyone when they die - ascending to heaven - I say it still counts. The resurrection doesn't do anything. Christ died, then three days later, he went to heaven.
Last I heard, Jesus supposedly came back and spent another few weeks on Earth, visiting his mother and a few of his best buddies or something, before ascending bodily to Heaven in view of a number of onlookers.

I haven't actually read the gospels though, so for all I know this story was made up later.

 14208 Knightof Lsama, Thu, 17th Oct '13 1:04:32 AM from The Sea of Chaos
[up] That sounds about right. I know the Catholic church celebrates the Feast of the Ascension several weeks after Easter and according to The Other Wiki its pretty common. Eastern Orthodox celebrate it was well, though the dates usually differ since they use a different liturgical calendar.
Welcome to the Sea of Chaos
 14209 Pykrete, Thu, 17th Oct '13 1:21:01 AM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Yeah, we treat them as two different things.

 14210 Tobias Drake, Thu, 17th Oct '13 11:24:56 AM from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Black Dragon
Aha. All I know of the Ascension is the point of contention Paul made out of, "We must believe that Jesus rose from the grave, because if Jesus didn't rise, then neither will we when we die." This was a discussion point earlier in the thread, and it still makes no sense to me, because he's basically saying that all Christians will be resurrected in mortal form.
 14211 Madrugada, Thu, 17th Oct '13 11:29:10 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
No, that's the Resurrection he's talking about there.

The Resurrection is "Jesus died, then came back to life and out of the grave."

The Ascension is "...and then about a month and a half later, he ascended bodily into Heaven all by himself, and that's the last anyone saw of Jesus physically on Earth". The "all by himself" part is kind of important, because there are a few other humans who were claimed to have been "assumed" into Heaven in bodily form, but they didn't do it to themselves. God did it to them.

edited 17th Oct '13 11:32:53 AM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 14212 Elfive, Thu, 17th Oct '13 11:51:50 AM from London
yarr
That kinda raises the question of how you would tell the difference.
 14213 Madrugada, Thu, 17th Oct '13 12:00:53 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
You mean between Ascension and Assumption? It's pretty much the difference between "Bye kids, gotta run now. <leaves>" and "Hey, you! C'mere! <yank>"

edited 17th Oct '13 12:01:29 PM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 14214 Tobias Drake, Thu, 17th Oct '13 12:54:01 PM from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Black Dragon
Yeah, but it would still be hard to tell the difference from an outside perspective. The one ascended into Heaven, and the other ascended into Heaven.
 14215 L Dragon 2, Fri, 18th Oct '13 1:58:54 AM from Pandora Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ZOMG TEH REI!!!!
As a Christian myself, I'll just say what I believe (please don't flame me).

I believe that we were designed in a certain way. I find it obvious that a man and woman were created to be with one another, and the homosexuality doesn't fit in with that design. To act on those thoughts is a sin, much like how acting on thoughts of pornography and alchoholism is the same.

With that said though, I also believe that one shouldn't treat someone who is gay any different than anyone else. After all, we are all guilty of sin and the like, even if one is a Christian.

So basically, I don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to condemn someone for it. After all, if one doesn't have love in their actions, they are nothing.

Again, just my belief. You don't have to agree with it.

edited 18th Oct '13 2:17:02 AM by LDragon2

Proud fanboy of anime/video games/scifi. Oh and of Rei Ayanami XD
 14216 Medinoc, Fri, 18th Oct '13 2:34:22 AM from France
I want Kat's glasses!
[up]If we were all designed by God and there are homosexuals among us, that means that either God is not infallible or that he included it in the design. Since the former is even more unacceptable in Christian dogma than questioning biblical inerrantcy, the answer is obvious.
They Called Me Mad!! I decided to show them all; but when I looked on my works, oh mighty, I despaired: for it made me realize they were right.
 14217 L Dragon 2, Fri, 18th Oct '13 3:17:21 AM from Pandora Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ZOMG TEH REI!!!!
Well God did give us the power of choice and the like. And he also works in very mysterious ways. wink

edited 18th Oct '13 3:19:01 AM by LDragon2

Proud fanboy of anime/video games/scifi. Oh and of Rei Ayanami XD
 14218 Elfive, Fri, 18th Oct '13 4:18:05 AM from London
yarr
Also he put a man's g-spot up the ass. Seems we're plenty designed for homosexuality to me.
 14219 Radical Taoist, Fri, 18th Oct '13 4:50:55 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
To act on those thoughts is a sin, much like how acting on thoughts of pornography and alchoholism is the same.
wat

Alcoholism is a disease that can be treated, like any addiction, and pornography is no more harmful than playing videogames or reading pulp novels.
 14220 Elfive, Fri, 18th Oct '13 5:08:35 AM from London
yarr
Ever heard the song It's a Sin, by the Pet Shop Boys? That's about the singer's Catholic upbringing.
 14221 Loni Jay, Fri, 18th Oct '13 6:52:37 AM from Australia Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
[up][up] Depends what you watch, I suppose. I've been hearing a lot about how the mainstream porn industry is shockingly damaging to its actors, is dreadfully misogynistic, etc.

Anyway, the way it was put to me is that pornography usually involves treating another person as an object for your sexual gratification, and that is always a sin. And most of christianity is heavily anti- anything sexual except married straight people.

But, you know, porn isn't illegal and you don't persecute people for having it, so maybe that's a better view than some alternatives? It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense to me for homosexual behaviour to be some sort of special class of sin that's worse than other sexual sins.

Except most people would agree that people should keep porn out of the public eye and away from children, but that's... really not an OK way to deal with homosexuality.

edited 18th Oct '13 6:53:48 AM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...
 14222 Elfive, Fri, 18th Oct '13 6:58:07 AM from London
yarr
That only applies to live-action stuff though. Fanfiction and erotic artwork are quite prevalent these days.
[up][up]

to be fair. organized film industry in general, just not porn, is shockingly damaging to its employees.
Going Forth!
 14224 soban, Fri, 18th Oct '13 7:00:33 AM from The Park Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Feeder Of Pigeons
@RT, the Bible is pretty clear that it's against alcoholism even if it is permitted. I think that our society has also evolved to the point where drinking alcohol at all is wrong. Cost benefit analysis alone makes it untenable. In my mind in the modern context, there is zero reason to drink alcohol. 75, 000 people die every year from the results of alcohol consumption. Furthermore, the 'benefits' of alcohol can be obtained by non-alcoholic means.
As is in accordance with prophecy.
 14225 Oh So Into Cats, Fri, 18th Oct '13 7:04:48 AM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
CANON!!
...Not even for religious purposes?
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

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