LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

Does it count as murder if it only lasts for three days?

(Pagetopper, I know, I know.)

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They're always nasty surprises for me >_<

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Maybe not, but it definitely counts as coldblooded torture, considering how painful crucifixions were.

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Given Paul's assertion that Jesus rising from the dead was the equivalent of what happens to everyone when they die - ascending to heaven - I say it still counts. The resurrection doesn't do anything. Christ died, then three days later, he went to heaven.

edited 16th Oct '13 5:33:52 PM by TobiasDrake

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"Elfive, you might want to get your memory checked. I said sin is like griefing or not changing the oil in your car. If you want to use the fish metaphor, It's more like giving your of age kids a car with an owners manual and everything and then trying to help them fix it when it breaks because of what they did to it."

I find it very amusing that you call for another person to remind oneself when you seem to have forgotten the countless arguments against the validity of the Original Sin as an excuse.

For instance, the fact that it wasn't even a concept mentioned anywhere until long after Jesus died. The early church came up with Original Sin like third century or something as a fuck you to the Gnostics.

Hell, eating the apple wasn't even considered a sin for a really long time. Just a dumbass move.

edited 16th Oct '13 6:27:33 PM by Pykrete

X % 25 == 0 is not exactly a difficult formula.

Last I heard, Jesus supposedly came back and spent another few weeks on Earth, visiting his mother and a few of his best buddies or something, before ascending bodily to Heaven in view of a number of onlookers.

I haven't actually read the gospels though, so for all I know this story was made up later.

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That sounds about right. I know the Catholic church celebrates the Feast of the Ascension several weeks after Easter and according to The Other Wiki its pretty common. Eastern Orthodox celebrate it was well, though the dates usually differ since they use a different liturgical calendar.

Yeah, we treat them as two different things.

Aha. All I know of the Ascension is the point of contention Paul made out of, "We must believe that Jesus rose from the grave, because if Jesus didn't rise, then neither will we when we die." This was a discussion point earlier in the thread, and it still makes no sense to me, because he's basically saying that all Christians will be resurrected in mortal form.

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No, that's the Resurrection he's talking about there.

The Resurrection is "Jesus died, then came back to life and out of the grave."

The Ascension is "...and then about a month and a half later, he ascended bodily into Heaven all by himself, and that's the last anyone saw of Jesus physically on Earth". The "all by himself" part is kind of important, because there are a few other humans who were claimed to have been "assumed" into Heaven in bodily form, but they didn't do it to themselves. God did it to them.

edited 17th Oct '13 11:32:53 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

That kinda raises the question of how you would tell the difference.

You mean between Ascension and Assumption? It's pretty much the difference between "Bye kids, gotta run now. <leaves>" and "Hey, you! C'mere! <yank>"

edited 17th Oct '13 12:01:29 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Yeah, but it would still be hard to tell the difference from an outside perspective. The one ascended into Heaven, and the other ascended into Heaven.

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As a Christian myself, I'll just say what I believe (please don't flame me).

I believe that we were designed in a certain way. I find it obvious that a man and woman were created to be with one another, and the homosexuality doesn't fit in with that design. To act on those thoughts is a sin, much like how acting on thoughts of pornography and alchoholism is the same.

With that said though, I also believe that one shouldn't treat someone who is gay any different than anyone else. After all, we are all guilty of sin and the like, even if one is a Christian.

So basically, I don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to condemn someone for it. After all, if one doesn't have love in their actions, they are nothing.

Again, just my belief. You don't have to agree with it.

edited 18th Oct '13 2:17:02 AM by LDragon2

If we were all designed by God and there are homosexuals among us, that means that either God is not infallible or that he included it in the design. Since the former is even more unacceptable in Christian dogma than questioning biblical inerrantcy, the answer is obvious.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Well God did give us the power of choice and the like. And he also works in very mysterious ways.

edited 18th Oct '13 3:19:01 AM by LDragon2

Also he put a man's g-spot up the ass. Seems we're plenty designed for homosexuality to me.

wat

Alcoholism is a disease that can be treated, like any addiction, and pornography is no more harmful than playing videogames or reading pulp novels.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Ever heard the song It's a Sin, by the Pet Shop Boys? That's about the singer's Catholic upbringing.

Depends what you watch, I suppose. I've been hearing a lot about how the mainstream porn industry is shockingly damaging to its actors, is dreadfully misogynistic, etc.

Anyway, the way it was put to me is that pornography usually involves treating another person as an object for your sexual gratification, and that is always a sin. And most of christianity is heavily anti- anything sexual except married straight people.

But, you know, porn isn't illegal and you don't persecute people for having it, so maybe that's a better view than some alternatives? It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense to me for homosexual behaviour to be some sort of special class of sin that's worse than other sexual sins.

Except most people would agree that people should keep porn out of the public eye and away from children, but that's... really not an OK way to deal with homosexuality.

edited 18th Oct '13 6:53:48 AM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

That only applies to live-action stuff though. Fanfiction and erotic artwork are quite prevalent these days.

to be fair. organized film industry in general, just not porn, is shockingly damaging to its employees.

@RT, the Bible is pretty clear that it's against alcoholism even if it is permitted. I think that our society has also evolved to the point where drinking alcohol at all is wrong. Cost benefit analysis alone makes it untenable. In my mind in the modern context, there is zero reason to drink alcohol. 75,000 people die every year from the results of alcohol consumption. Furthermore, the 'benefits' of alcohol can be obtained by non-alcoholic means.

...Not even for religious purposes?