LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

"Describe your religion as if you were the only one who had ever heard of it."

I believe that by not aiming for my own satisfaction and well-being, I attain the greatest satisfaction and well-being. The outward manisfestation of this is to serve all my fellow human beings.

Technically you're still aiming for your own satisfaction. You just have your sights corrected.

They delicious irony of this, is that you more or less said what Jesus said.

That's cheating.

edited 11th Jul '13 8:28:08 AM by Matues

How so?

It took me a while to grasp what you were saying. I get what you mean. But actually it's not so much cheating, as, this is what works.

edited 11th Jul '13 8:40:08 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

You're aiming at not aiming, while claiming to not be aiming by aiming.

It's practically Zen.

It just seems to me to be like doing the right thing because you know you'll be rewarded, all while loudly extolling how you're doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

That's the very old "If heaven and hell are the only thing that make you do good and stop you from doing evil, then you are the sociopaths" argument. I can get behind that.

And I find it a fallacy that anybody does anything for strictly no reason at all. It sounds good in greeting cards, but I've never seen it in real life.

We are designed to need joy, hope, love, a good laugh, some good sex, etc. There's nothing shameful that the Universe was specifically designed so that the best way to get said things, is to bestow them on others.

Which is another way to sum up Christianity without using the word.

I think "it's better to give than receive" is a sentiment echoed by some of the LGBT community too.

I disagree- that assumes that true selflessness is impossible. That we require a benefit, emotional or tangible in order to do something. It's the same reason the concept of heave and hell disgust me. I do not do good things for others because they make me feel good or because I am striving towards some desire. I do them because they are the right thing to do in my view, not because doing them grants me any satisfaction (which it often does not).

edited 11th Jul '13 9:13:42 AM by LMage

That sounds nothing like anything I've ever seen within Christianity.

It's generally more along the lines of..

You are a human being.
You should hate yourself for it.
Now, beg for forgiveness for being a human.
Go on.
Good. Now do exactly as commanded.
No, you can't know why.
No, you won't be given anything as silly as proof.\

edited 11th Jul '13 9:15:37 AM by Matues

You'd give Heaven the Heave-ho then?

That's the other major issue I take with Christianity. It assumes that human beings carry an inherent evil that they can never escape. (The Christian idea of evil infuriates me because it is both counterproductive to the general good and frankly insane.)

Can you clarify what you mean?

edited 11th Jul '13 9:18:11 AM by LMage

You lost an N.

I do good things for a variety of reasons, at least half of which aren't totally selfish.

I was making a pun.

The Christian "Original Sin" concept hits a bit of a bump when you realize that Genesis, the book that explains where it came from, is pretty much accepted as "never happened" by most sensible people these days.

edited 11th Jul '13 9:30:32 AM by Elfive

And I disagree with you. I do believe true selflessness is impossible. There's no such thing.

However......there is true nobility. And you are an example of that. You do things for others, not for personal benefit, but because you have to be true to your own moral code. Which is still a reward in and of itself. Much like justice or honor.

'Genesis, the book that explains where it came from, is pretty much accepted as "never happened"'

Who says that?

edited 11th Jul '13 9:34:58 AM by lonesomepaire

See this is what makes me so mad about Christians. That perfectly rational people can be so thoroughly convinced about humanity's inherent wickedness as to deny something as basic as the existence of true selflessness. IT's insane.

What Starship, convinces you that it's impossible?

Pretty much every branch of science in concert? It contradicts biology, geology, astrophysics, and pretty much every other discipline you could mention.

edited 11th Jul '13 9:36:16 AM by Elfive

I understand that. I thought you meant Christians don't believe genesis. Nevermind.

What about altruism in other species and how it ultimately helps the survival of genes ? Granted I guess that's not TRUE selflessness, since that's what the altruism is for, but the animals aren't aware of that

It contradicts the assumptions in all brances of science. Not necessarily the sciences themselves.

Your own statement that you do things because you deem them to be right. You made a moral decision and are now taking actions based on meeting that standard.

Or...do you object to the idea of meeting a moral code as being a desired outcome?

edited 11th Jul '13 10:00:10 AM by TheStarshipMaxima