LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I wouldn't take that job in the first place, in their place. But why wouldn't a Christian get far as a cardiologist?

There's a difference between Christians and Christian Scientists. They believe that everything can be cured by prayer alone and eschew modern medicine. But this is veering off topic.

Oh a christian scientist is not the same as a scientist who is christian. It's a follower of 'Christian Science'

Basically faith healing.

This. As well, it is quite possible to be a Christian and believe in aspirin, condoms, chemotherapy, antibiotics, and the like. Without explaining that a "Christian Scientist" is NOT the same as a Christian scientist, that can be a rather offensive strawman.

Also, while each of our Person Dictionaries may vary concerning "bigotry" I'm afraid an inherent sense of superiority is NOT bigotry; not by any objective definition of the word. One can be tolerant of some other group while not agreeing with their way. So no, a person who believes a heteronormative relationship is superior to one that defies gender conventions is not a bigot.

Though one could make the argument that somebody who confronts someone with that view and proceeds to demonize them and conflate their view with whatever they wish is a bigot.

edited 28th Mar '13 5:47:34 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

No one said a Christian couldn't be a scientist. Just that a Christian Scientist (which is a specific Christian denomination that doesn't believe in medicine) would not be a good doctor.

I do see your point Shima. However, I'm sure you can see how without that background info, that comes off as an extremely insulting idea, especially in light of Christians who actually are respected scientists in every sphere, Dr. Ben Carson being but one example.

Nevertheless, edited.

edited 28th Mar '13 5:48:27 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

Private businesses are one thing, but I have a serious problem with public officials being given free reign to discriminate, deeply held religious beliefs aside.

Actually Morg, I have a problem with private business discriminating as well. In the United States and just about every civilized nation on Earth, there are some things we all agree everyone is entitled to.

To go back to that rather (I thought) clever metaphor, if I or Wildcard owned a ribs and beer joint, we'd never discriminate against gays, transgenders, furries, whoever. The Bible says quite clearly "You MUST render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's." To do less is un-American and a total failure of Christian principles.

In other words, if someone comes in and is being a good customer and pays for their meal, The Bible itself dictates, you MUST serve them. When the Bible and the Constitution are in agreement, I'm not arguing.

edited 28th Mar '13 5:54:07 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

I'm fine with having Christian scientists, doctors, judges, etc...as long as their beliefs don't interfere with their promise to help EVERYONE.

A Christian's faith can't interfere with his duty to help everyone because as a Christian it IS his duty to help everyone.

Tell that to Tyra Hunter who was refused medical care thanks to Christian beliefs because she was trans.

As for Christian Scientists, I did capitalize the whole thing as a proper noun. Reading comprehension is key as you keep telling us, Starship.

Even when it comes to life saving procedure many of them feel is repugnant like a life saving abortion? In that case the Hippocratic Oath must take precedence regardless of personal feelings on the issue.

To be fair shima I don't think that sect is well known. I didn't know what you were talking about until the link either.

edited 28th Mar '13 6:01:46 PM by Wildcard

That's true, there have been a lot of cases of women dying lately because they were refused medical care because of Christian beliefs that they did not share. This is getting further and further off topic though. I think we need a new thread for Religion getting in the way of medicine.

Duly noted.

edited 28th Mar '13 6:17:18 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

Though one could reasonable make the case that they have failed as Christians in that case for letting the letter of their beliefs interfere with their duty to help people both Earthly and Sacred.

Edit: Would you like me to start the topic instead of debating it here?

edited 28th Mar '13 6:17:28 PM by Wildcard

Would someone please show me where in the case of that transperson, they were refused care because of Christian beliefs.

Which would make them neither Christian nor Scientists. Well, definitely not good ones. They're name is so fitting.

edited 28th Mar '13 6:22:35 PM by deathpigeon

I agree. The right word would be "dumbass".

edited 28th Mar '13 6:23:56 PM by kay4today

That is kind of impossible to confirm or deny Ship, they did not release the name of the guilty party.

On a general point though she was only refused treatment because of a belief, (perhaps religious perhaps not) that transsexuals were disgusting.

...I think he was asking for a source not a name.

How could we find out the person's religious beliefs if we don't even know if they are religious?

...For the story of the doctor refusing service...

Well there is two sources listen right below Wikipedia for proof that it happened. I'm saying we can't confirm or deny the surgeons who refused treatment justified it under Christian beliefs or not. No source I know of has come forward with the identity of the surgeons.

Which means what Card? It's okay to simply guess and make a statement like that without any indication it's actually true?

I've read accounts of what happened here, here, and here. Not one of them mentions any sort of religious belief of any stripe being even mentioned in the barbarian behavior that got Hunter killed.

On this thread where the perception of offense is enough to get you labelled a bigot, are you (pr.) now seriously going to tell me throwing out an accusation blaming Christian beliefs for an act of absolute depravity with no indication it's true is acceptable?

edited 28th Mar '13 6:39:35 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

No and I didn't say it was a crime based on faith, or imply it. I literally don't know and I don't think anyone but the investigators and witnesses do. I'm saying we don't know, shimaspawn did say it was from Christian beliefs, that was an unjust thing to say without proof and I should have said something about that, sorry.

edited 28th Mar '13 6:55:27 PM by Wildcard