LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

@Starship: I think the thing is we have far more empathy for the people negatively effected by the traditions than the people who make the traditions. A lot of conservatives, religious, and just people who advocate tradition in general often think that just because a tradition doesn't effect them negatively in any way that the other side is either overreacting or has nothing to complain about.

Basically "I don't know what there complaining about. Everyone I know if fine with the way things are." but they often don't know the people rebelling against the traditions. We think it's about time the traditions were stopped while the other side argues that it was always done this way and nobody had a problem before now. If you have a different argument though I could see it and would want to know.

Edit: Corrected a grammar error. Maybe I should use a online grammar check before I post.

edited 19th Feb '13 8:23:57 AM by Wildcard

I don't get it, Carc. If you're against your church's stances on women, on homosexuality, on how it handles child sex abuse, then why on Earth do you continue to support its sexist, homophobic, and abusive ways?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Don't shoot me, and this is off-topic, but....

I started casting this thread (Why? 'Cause I have no life and because It Amused Me).

So, here are my picks....

Neil Patrick Harris as Morgikit
Tina Fey as shima's spawn
Michael Shanks as deathpigeon
Kristen Bell as Gabrael
Felicia Day as Kay42day
Martin Freeman as Silasw
Emma Watson as Euodiachloris
Ben Affleck as Drunk Scriblerian
Amanda Tapping as Drunk Girlfriend
Claudia Black as Polarstern

Additions, questions, suggestions, corrections.....

edited 19th Feb '13 8:34:45 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

Keith David as The Starship Maxima

In case you don't know Starship here is him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YKvZS0uQw at 40 seconds in.

edited 19th Feb '13 8:38:50 AM by Wildcard

I have no problem with this casting.

And Keith David can accelerate my life anytime.

edited 19th Feb '13 8:42:12 AM by Morgikit

Le Var Burton, shurely?

edited 19th Feb '13 8:47:28 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

re: Keith David as me =

"We spend millions of dollars researching LGBTQ issues. And here we are. The fate of minorities is being deliberated by a bunch of geeks I wouldn't trust with a DVD of the Big Bang Theory."

@Morg - Glad you approve. I really see NPH as the only guy who can pull off your level of snark convincingly.

Hey! That could work.

edited 19th Feb '13 8:48:36 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

You'd think the Catholic church would look at the fact that it's been losing ground fairly consistently for the past century, and re-think a few thing. Allowing female priests would be a massive popularity boost.

I don't have a grudge against the institution per say. I admire how they've been fairly good accepting science. (Outside of birth control. Idiots) and helping poorer nations. Unfortunately, their third world help has some major strings attached.

I've love for a church to actually come up with a good reason for the "no women priests thing" aside for "that's the way it's always been." Even children don't buy that argument.

Their stance on homosexuality makes me want to vomit in the pope's hat, however.

edited 19th Feb '13 8:48:29 AM by DrTentacles

Well, I just don't buy the whole "The Church should do this to be more in step with the trends."

The Catholic Church believes women shouldn't be priests. And they think being gay is a sin. If one doesn't want to swallow that, they're free to worship elsewhere.

But I know if I ran a Church, I'd never change the doctrine to accomodate popular opinion.

It was an honor

Jon Hamm as Lawyerdude
Bryan Cranston as Dr. Tentacles
Hugh Laurie as Achaemenid\\

edited 19th Feb '13 8:55:36 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

@Starship: Who are you quoting?

What about the people who can't opt out? All the kids who are born to religious families and are guilt tripped into Catholicism or Christianity if they attempt to leave? Shouldn't they be accommodated for by making religion slightly more acceptable? Or should they have to go through with a religion they don't agree with?

No

edited 19th Feb '13 8:59:24 AM by Wildcard

Nobody really, just trying to approximate the general sentiment. You feel it's inaccurate?

It was an honor

By an alarming coincidence, Jon Hamm and I share the same alma mater.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Popular opinion isn't always worth following, but it's worth listening to. And I see no reason why women wouldn't make just as good priests as men. On sexually repressed elderly person in a robe is much like another, no matter the Gender.

Yes! I can totally get behind that casting!

There is an interesting article here about why the Church cannot change its "policies". The article is both an example and an explanation of why not.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:05:16 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

I can sort of respect a conviction to one's ideals like that, but the fact is as time goes on the stance of the catholic church is diverging from mainstream sensibilities at an ever increasing rate. That's a recipe for disaster. At this point a schism seems almost inevitable, if not the outright collapse of the vatican

But to be honest, I don't really get why a woman would want to be a priest for a religion that has a habit of treating her as a second-class citizen. It strikes me as nonsensical.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:04:56 AM by Elfive

Because they respect the tenets of the institution, though not the current state, and want to effect change from the inside?

Jim Parsons as Elfive.

It was an honor

They'd be better off setting up their own group with the same tenets then.

I can live with that.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:07:24 AM by Elfive

Essentially if they want to stick with tradition above the people than they should face the consequences of their actions.

@Casting; Isn't Le Var Burton as Maxima a little to on-the-nose? A trekker being played by a trek actor seems a little too obvious.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:12:45 AM by Wildcard

Well people used to call me Urkel so we could go with Jaleel White.

When we do the Future Episode I could be played by Reginald Vel Johnson (aka Carl Winslow or Sgt. Powell from Die Hard).

It was an honor

You really wanna be Sonic The Hedgehog?

No matter how much one may find distasteful the issues that you mention, they pale in comparison of some of the atrocities the Catholic Church sponsored in the past. So, shouldn't you rather ask me — for example — why I belong to a Church that had Jan Hus burned alive, after it promised him safe passage to the Council of Constance? Or is there a statute of limitations over these matters?

But the long and the short of it is that I believe the theological framework of the Catholic Church to be substantially correct (please, let us avoid debating here on the why I believe this, as this would lead us astray: if it pleases you, just assume for the purposes of this post that I am under a very specific form of mental illness) and it, despite all its flaws, to be the rightful successor of the original Christian Church.

If I revised my opinions of these matters, then I would convert to another denomination. For example, the Orthodox Church has also a very solid claim of being the rightful successor; and if I ever end up becoming convinced that the Orthodox Church's claim is stronger than the one of the Catholic Church, then I will convert to Orthodoxy, despite the fact that when it comes to the issues we are discussing the Orthodox Church is perhaps even more rigid and unflexible than the Catholic Church. Conversely, I very much like the overall attitude of the Quakers and their approach to religious and social matters; but unless I convinced myself that they are theologically and ecclesiologically in the right, I would never join them.

No matter in which Church I ended up believing and belonging, I would certainly keep criticizing what (in my, admittedly limited, understanding) I found deserving of criticism in it, in a spirit of obedience and service. Which is exactly what I am attempting to do right now as a Catholic.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:22:09 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Nice. I share an alma mater with John Candy.

Anyways, the primary function of the Catholic hierarchy is to consolidate the power of the Catholic hierarchy. This is the problem with religion by affiliation: an organization that was functionally identical in its beliefs to Catholicism but refused to recognize the authority of the Holy See would not be Catholic. This is why they fear schisms more than they fear thousands of poor Africans dying from AI Ds.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

The official explanation is that the priest is playing the role of Jesus during the sermon and communion, and apparently a woman can't do this.

I'd personally argue that neither could any male who's white, portly, or older than his early thirties.

The same reason as the last hundred times you asked this question in this thread. I.E., he doesn't, but manages to see the institution as the sum of more than a small handful of things he doesn't like about it. Much like we do with pretty much every public institution ever that sometimes does things we don't like but consider worth it anyway. I can think of quite a few that you live under right now but don't dislike enough to advocate going off to live on a floating ocean commune.

edited 19th Feb '13 9:54:47 AM by Pykrete