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LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

NCC - 1701
It is a bit similar to the way in which, during Erasmus' lifetime, he was disliked by hardline Catholics for denouncing the abuses of the Catholic Church and for refusing to take a position against Martin Luther's main objections, and he was also disliked by hardline Protestants for refusing to leave the Catholic Church and for not being willing to compromise on the subject of free will.

Both "sides" considered him cowardly and unreliable, and just wanted him to stop being silly and take a clear position for their side already.

To both Erasmus replied with his motto — nulli concedo, that is, I yield to no one.

And neither do I.

Most fucking [awesome] thing I've read all day. I've never seen such an adroit summation of my own feelings.

Also, Carciofus...I'll be honest, for a long time in my life I held a low opinion of Catholics. You, sir, have caused me to reevaluate them.

I told you before, and I repeat it, you remind of King Solomon who gained fame the world over for his sage advice.
It was an honor
 4177 Fish 1, Thu, 18th Oct '12 7:59:36 AM from Lovecraft Country
2 Fish
[up][up][up][up] The difference is, Joe Biden isn't showing up to Lawyerdude's conference whereas Paul Ryan is going to Tony Perkins'.

Yeah, some (not all, of course) "conservative" types seem to get some real kick out of trying to bully "progressive" believers (I dislike to apply the terms "conservative" and "progressive" to religion, but you get what I mean) out of their denominations.

We're not simply talking conservatives picking on progressives. We're talking about conservatives picking on people who differ with them with one or two issues and otherwise agree with them. Not just for religious reasons, mind. It hampers their ability to create a politically uniform culture, whom they can make money off of.

edited 18th Oct '12 8:09:16 AM by Fish1

Indeed.
 4178 Radical Taoist, Thu, 18th Oct '12 8:09:13 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
For the record, my support for LGBTQ rights and my support for empirical rationalism are motivated by different factors. I recommend empirical rationalism (which tends to lead to atheism) as I think it's a position that benefits the people who hold it, and is a healthier way to view the world overall; if I suggest it to you, I want you to treat yourself better. I support LGBTQ rights because I find it morally reprehensible to treat people differently over their sexual orientation; if I argue this with you, I probably want you to treat other people better.
NCC - 1701
[up] Huh?
It was an honor
 4180 Radical Taoist, Thu, 18th Oct '12 8:13:28 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
I'm just saying that I'm not an atheist/empirical rationalist/critic of religion because I'm an LGBTQ supporter, or vice versa. Now, the two complement each other marvelously, as I can go after Wahabi Sunnis or the Catholic Church with all guns blazing, but they only indirectly motivate each other.
NCC - 1701
Congrats. I am a LGBTQ rights supporter because I'm a Christian. So basically....

....He's a godless pagan Taoist. He's a right-wing Bible-waving Christian. Together....They Fight Fundamentalists!
It was an honor
 4182 Radical Taoist, Thu, 18th Oct '12 8:48:16 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
Congrats. I am a LGBTQ rights supporter because I'm a Christian.
It's always tricky determining the causality of beliefs, as while moral beliefs may be closely related, that relation may not be one of causal hierarchy. How are you sure that Christianity led to your support for LGBTQ rights, rather than your possession of a set of moral drives that separately motivated your Christianity and your LGBTQ rights support (i.e., an independent third cause)?
....He's a godless pagan Taoist. He's a right-wing Bible-waving Christian. Together....They Fight Fundamentalists!
Knowing the writers, this is going to go downhill in the fifth season.tongue
 4183 rmctagg09, Thu, 18th Oct '12 8:52:22 AM from Brooklyn, NY Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but it gives me a WAFF.
Hugging a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

It's typed rmctagg09.
Euo will do!
[up]And that, ladies and gents, is what is often overlooked. Sadly. <sighs> And, it's even in Leviticus... that most abused bit of text.

Leviticus 19:18 — "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord."

If I'm going to take anything of that book out of context, it's that.

edited 18th Oct '12 9:48:04 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
 4185 Morgikit, Thu, 18th Oct '12 9:10:12 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Why is it that people with a preschool level understanding of human sexuality and gender identity consider themselves experts?
Euo will do!
[up]Because they wanna, and they're gonna, and you can't say anything else! 'Cos I'm bigger and my Daddy had a bigger <insert any particular item of an entitlement inducing, superiority complex here> than yours! Na na na na na. tongue

edited 18th Oct '12 9:13:40 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
 4187 Morgikit, Thu, 18th Oct '12 9:18:29 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Why isn't this psychopath committed? He's clearly dangerous to children, and so are his followers.

edited 18th Oct '12 9:21:09 AM by Morgikit

 4188 Drunk Girlfriend, Thu, 18th Oct '12 9:36:01 AM from Castle Geekhaven
[up] Because we have Freedom of Speech and Religion here.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 4189 Morgikit, Thu, 18th Oct '12 9:44:20 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
You're really gonna go there? This isn't a damn funeral protest. The bastard is advocating violence against children.
 4190 shimaspawn, Thu, 18th Oct '12 9:53:13 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
He is, and I think it's atrocious, but he'll hide behind the first amendment if anyone tries to arrest him.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Euo will do!
<mandatory sardonic gloat, sadly> He'd get himself in serious trouble in the UK with those views. Clear incitement to violence. Worse, on kids. He'd really enjoy the prison time, should it warrant a custodial sentence when you add it all up.
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
NCC - 1701
I don't agree with that assessment of Pastor Harris's statements at all.
It was an honor
 4193 Morgikit, Thu, 18th Oct '12 10:17:37 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Why am I not surprised, Max?
 4194 Carciofus, Thu, 18th Oct '12 10:36:07 AM from Canterlot
Is that cake frosting?
Does this "pastor" have any children? Because if something like this does not warrant a visit from Child Services, I don't know what does.
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

 4195 Fish 1, Thu, 18th Oct '12 11:01:52 AM from Lovecraft Country
NCC - 1701
Why am I not surprised, Max?

Probably for the same reason I'm not surprised everyone is talking about child abuse and what a degenerate is even though that was never the point of his sermon and on top of that he explained his remarks.
It was an honor
 4197 Silasw, Thu, 18th Oct '12 11:04:50 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
[up][up][up][up] How about we here Starship's reasoning behind not agreeing with that interpretation, before we condemn him? After all I need time to dust of my condemnation gear.

Edit: [up]There we go. I still stand that the man is a horrible person for thinking that parents should be dictating to children what their sexual preference is, likewise he's an idiot for using such bad terminology. However the link does indicate that he wasn’t advocating violence, just trying to force your child to be what they aren’t, so as to make them conform to your religious views.

edited 18th Oct '12 11:09:15 AM by Silasw

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 4198 Radical Taoist, Thu, 18th Oct '12 11:12:31 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
This week Harris said, "I was telling them in strong words that were not careful. What did I learn this week? Be more careful with your words."
So, the problem wasn't that you incited violence against homosexual kids, but that you weren't tactful enough in doing so.

Really.
"You know, it's amazing how 'punch' has been equated to inciting violence against gay youth. That's not what I meant, " the pastor said.
Oh, so you meant the kind of punch that doesn't hurt? The friendly punch? The sign of affection between men who accept and respect each other?

Really.
Instead, he said, the reference should be interpreted differently: "A shove, an affirmation. You see coaches give their players a good punch, a good slug. It's a way of affirming the gender distinctions between a male and a female, " he said.
Ah, so it's not hateful as long as you turn it into a Pavlovian signal. Nothing like passive-aggressive parenting to tell kids who are different that Mommy and Daddy love them, just remember to act the right way.

Really.
"I was apologizing for failing to say the right thing, for failing to be more careful, to make sure that no one thinks that Sean Harris is suggesting, as was said – although I never said this – ... 'Beat the gay outta children.' Those weren't my words, I didn't even believe there is such a thing as gay children. So I wasn't saying that. I was dealing with effeminate behavior, and instructing parents to affirm the manhood or the womanhood in their children, " he said.
I didn't even believe there is such a thing as gay children.
I was dealing with effeminate behavior, and instructing parents to affirm the manhood or the womanhood in their children,
Really.

I wanna see the teen suicide rates in his area.
Euo will do!
[up][up][up]Seriously? Suggesting enforcing cis-gendered, heterosexual stereotypes of your own choosing on a child... or else, feel the back of my hand! ... This isn't advocating abuse-in-the-name-of-teaching? <confused>

edited 18th Oct '12 11:14:54 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
 4200 Morgikit, Thu, 18th Oct '12 11:14:14 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
It's bad enough we have a pastor saying that "limp-wristed" boys should have their wrists broken. But then you feel the need to defend him? And that article just comes off as "I'm sorry I got caught and got more attention than I intended."
Total posts: 15,600
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169 170 171 172 173 ... 624


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