Manga/Dragon Ball

I always thought that once you become a Super Saiyan you don't receive any more Zenkais because they really would be insignificant as far as raising you power level. I mean aren't the sole reason that Zenakais even exist in the first is so that Saiyans can become Super Saiyan quicker? And once you become a Super Saiyan you aren't eligible for a Zenkai.

I think this explanation from a guy in a forum I saw explains it the best:

"AT didn't fully abandon the Zenkai-concept, as Cell still got one, but IMO; that was only because the Saiyan cells he had in his system were harvested when the Saiyans in question (Goku and Vegeta) hadn't yet attained Super Saiyan. I personally agree with the train of thought that Zenkai's either completely vanish after one achieves Super Saiyan, or they simply become so insignificant that they aren't worth mentioning any longer. I lean towards saying they completely vanished as Gohan didn't get a Zenkai after Dende healed him from the damage inflicted by Buutenks (no, I don't think Gohan reached his potential peak power yet, so I don't use that as an explanation).

I see Zenkai's as a survival-mechanism more or less; granting Saiyans that recovered from the brink of death with massive power-ups, so they could survive and live to fight on. Now after Super Saiyan is reached, Zenkai's become useless as the Saiyans in question can now 50-fold their battle power in an instant should their base form not suffice in combat, meaning they don't have to rely on Zenkai's to save them any more. I also think Zenkai's exist for the purpose of allowing a Saiyan to constantly get closer to attaining Super Saiyan, I feel this is more or less implied by the Zenkai's Goku and Vegeta got on Namek constantly becoming larger and larger when on their ways to attain Super Saiyan.

So IMO; once Super Saiyan is reached, Zenkai's no longer serve a purpose in either of the two ways I described above, so indeed, I think they vanished over time with all the Saiyans achieving Super Saiyan."

Saiyans don't really have limitless potential, it's that limits in Dragon Ball are temporary. They hit their limits and it usually require something (outside assistance or unlocking a new form) to push past that.

Saiyans also won the Superpower Lottery as far as power-ups go.

As genetically programmed power-ups go, Namekians have their fusion ability which requires two of them to perform, while Humans have nothing.

In addition to having their power level basically picked entirely at random from the moment they were born - a literal Super Power Lottery - Saiyans have the Oozaru transformation, zenkais, AND the Super Saiyan transformation, and new levels of Super Saiyan whenever whatever level they're on right now isn't up to snuff. Their biology bends over backwards to come up with new ways of making them more powerful than everyone around them.

While there are other free power-ups floating around, as far as racial bonuses go, every other race has to work hard and train in order to become powerful. A Saiyan might just get lucky and be infinitely powerful at 7 years old for no reason at all other than because his biology said so. Goku's the most dangerous person in the universe because he knows how to commit to hard work and training while still benefitting from all the relatively OP Saiyan racial bonuses.

Is it any wonder Frieza felt threatened?

edited 9th Apr '14 8:49:26 AM by TobiasDrake

They were a called warrior race for a reason...

I'm a noob to the DB Franchise and I want to get into the anime but before I do that I'm trying to fit all of DBZ movies in the timeline so does anyone know what order the movies are between the episodes chronologically?

edited 10th Apr '14 12:38:02 PM by AfroWarrior27

Garlick Jr. 1st

Bojack before Buu saga.

You're welcome.

The movies don't really fit in all that well.

We meet again, Randomness4.

Man, you seriously get around.

Yeah, the movies really don't fit very well into the timeline. Are you starting with the Dragon Ball anime, the Z anime, or Kai? Regardless, here's my best attempt.

Movie 1, Dead Zone - Before the first episode of Z/Kai.

Movie 2 and 3 - After the Saiyan arc (episode 35 of Z), before the Namek arc.

Movie 4 - I don't know. I would say after the Saiyan arc as well but it has its own take on Super Saiyan which should put it post Freeza (but not really). This was released halfway through the Namek arc and I'd probably just watch it after movie 3 honestly.

Bardock, the Father of Goku - Before Goku battles Freeza

Movie 5 - After the Trunks mini-arc, before the "training for the Androids" episodes.

History of Trunks - I'd say after movie 5.

Movie 6 - This movie makes no fucking sense, even for a Dragon Ball movie. I'd just say to watch it after Cell first shows up.

Movie 7 - This movie probably takes place before movie 6. Seriously, shit is all over the place. Just watch it after Cell first shows up.

Movie 8 - During the 10 day wait before the Cell Games.

Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans / Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans - After movie 8

Movie 9 - After the Cell arc, after Trunks returns to his timeline.

Movie 10 - After everyone leaves the 25th Budokai tournament, I suppose.

Movie 11 - After movie 10.

Movie 12 - No real good place to put it, after the end of the anime is probably best though.

Movie 13 - After the end of the anime.

2008 JSAT Special, Yo Son Goku and his friends return - after the end of the anime

Battle of Gods - After everything else

Was Movie 6 the Android one, or the Metal Cooler one?

Metal Cooler. Movie 7 is Androids.

I thought Battle Of Gods took place before Uub.

Yeah, so does movie 13. But since Oob is only three episodes and is likely never going to be referenced again I wouldn't bother putting the later stuff in between. I expect that it's mostly going to stay in that era or branch off into something different.

x6 I am random, thank you.

Yay roommates adventures!

God race would be more appropriate. <.< Seriously, by the time the Majin Buu Saga rolls around, Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta are more powerful than the most powerful divine beings in the setting, purely because their biology allows them to be. It's not magic or divine power that allowed them to become capable of curbstomping gods; it's their race's natural biological capabilities.

Saiyans are terrifying.

edited 10th Apr '14 10:04:55 AM by TobiasDrake

considering they're based on Sun Wukong at some extent,as well as the existence of Super Saiyan God,i wouldnt be suprised if they used to be gods till someone "depowered" them

new movie plot!

No, they're not a good standard for the Saiyan race. All three of them are freaks, especially Gohan.

Yeah considering the peak the Saiyans in the main story got and at the PEAK of their race never got as strong as Frieza(had the potential though) besides the legendary super saiyan itself. Saiyan's are only just potentially very gdlk if certain very specific conditions are met.

You can say the same for the more powerful humans on Earth.

Nappa's power level is 4k, and he's considered an Elite Saiyan. Compare that to fucking Cui's 18k. The strongest Saiyan was at 10k, King Vegeta. The race wasn't that great. When you factor in Oozaru form, King Vegeta is still weaker than Ginyu.

Cui's most likely a mutant, though. Oh, and the elite thing was retconned by Toriyama's interview. Where the manga used low class, elite and super elite, Toriyama described low class, mid class and elite. They're just different terms for the same thing, but Toriyama's are more accurate for describing them while the Saiyan terms are more egotistical.

And Ginyu is explicitly a mutant, one who body surfed his way to power.

edited 10th Apr '14 5:28:52 PM by Saiga

Krillin's probably a mutant. What with the dwarfism. And, more importantly, not having a nose.

Wasn't Krillin not having a nose done as an inside joke by Toriyama? According to Dragon Ball: Bouken (Adventure) Special (a one-shot magazine about Dragon Ball released on November 18, 1987), Toriyama once stated, seemingly humorously, that Krillin's lack of a nose is because "he has a physical idiosyncrasy that allows him to breath through the pores of his skin."

Good old Toriyama bullshitting.

edited 10th Apr '14 6:21:49 PM by FireShadow

Not really an inside joke, it's a gag but it's still what allows him to advance in the first tournament. Of course in the very next fight he blows boogers at Chun but whatever.

@Saiga Thanks for your input, as for your questions.

Starting with the original Dragon Ball, but I tend to organize shows before watching them. And I'll be watching Z instead of Kai because I want to experience the fillers for a full experience, even if they are fillers. Also for the movies you listed, would it be too much to give the precise episode number on where the movies take place? If it is, thank you regardless.

edited 11th Apr '14 5:52:53 AM by AfroWarrior27