Unclear Description: Furry Fandom

I don't get that, frankly, but if it bugs you that much, rewrite for a more general case. Although the entire page is a bit prolix and could use trimming.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Okay... how do I go about changing it from "people who like [x] should totally hang out with [fandom]" to "[fandom] has nice people to hang out with", without the sentence looking out of place or breaking the flow of the paragraph? I'm not really familiar with this fandom, honestly.

edited 5th Apr '12 12:21:23 PM by ThatHuman

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The fact that the page is making the absurd claim of "likes Looney Tunes or Star Fox = Furry" is why I started this thread. So pawsplay and whoever else - you're totally wrong, liking those things does not make you a furry, any more than eating pizza every now and again puts you on the Mediterranean Diet.

We need to stop quibbling about this and rewrite the description to make it about the actual fandom - not who should be a part of it according to other furries, not a bunch of subjective and probably insulting tropes about the fans themselves. Tropes related to furry works and the media perception of the fandom can probably stay. But as has been discussed already, we need to get rid of bullshit like "50% of furries are bi."

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Then again, does liking Sailor Moon make you an anime fan?! But the part about the sexual orentation of furries has nothing to do with anything, so can be snipped.

You can like however many animes you want without being an anime fan. It depends on if you like them for being anime, or for just being good stories. If it's just the latter, you're not necessarily an anime fan. Same with furries. If you like various Disney, Loony Toons, or other works with anthro animals, you're not a furry unless you like them because of that type of characters. You can also like Star Fox because the main character is a fox, and you just love the species.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

Right. I love Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex, Hellsing, and Appleseed, but I generally hate anime. So I'm not an anime fan, just like I'm not a furry even though Blacksad is one of my favorite comic books, and Star Fox 64 was one of my favorite games on the Nintendo 64.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

You love Hellsing and Ghost In The Shell but you're not an anime fan. I understand your position, but I do not agree with you. I'm not wrong. You have an idiocyncratic definition of fandom.

Well, I love Brad Pitt. And George Clooney. Because they are wonderful human beings.

edited 5th Apr '12 5:04:07 PM by pawsplay

Don't use the term "fandom" too loudly around Martello.

But yeah, the idea of that liking Bugs Bunny cartoons makes you a furry is downright silly, and not something we should be promoting. As a rule, I hate trying to pigeonhole people into identities that they themselves would deny or reject.

This isn't pigeonholing anyone. You don't get the furry nametag because you watch Bugs Bunny. However, if you draw Bugs Bunny, and invent your own character, Charlie Chinchilla, you are, in fact, a furry.

The relevant part of that is inventing the character, not watching the show. Even that is iffy, maybe more like "dressing up as the character you invent", but there are lots of reasons you might do that besides being a "furry fan".

That is absolutely not an idiosyncratic definition of "fandom"/"fan" (which is supposed to be short for "fanatic"). Why you like something is very important. Anime fans ostensibly include "the style" (or etc.) among the reasons they like the shows they like; someone could like many shows that happen to be Anime (for the content, say) and not be an Anime fan, if the style isn't part of what they like. This is completely a matter of self-identification. "If you X, you are Y" is false.*

Any language even remotely like that should be removed from the article.

edited 5th Apr '12 6:18:24 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I'm not suggesting a litmus test. However, according to , many people who actually identify as furries wouldn't meet the bar because they don't dress up in fursuits. My impression, and I may be wrong here, is that a lot of people are saying you don't qualify as a furry if you aren't weird. Which is wrong. Many, in fact, most, furries are people who just like a thing. The thing is anthropomorphic animal characters.

"I may be wrong here..."

Yes. Not saying anything about qualifications. Just: Being a fan of something is about what you think, not what you do.

edited 5th Apr '12 9:28:19 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

How does that even fit the definition of a fan? You're not a fan unless you do something, even if it's just thinking about something. Merely having an opinion or an idea doesn't make you a fan.

Catbert is right, I don't like fandoms. They're like large groups of religious fundamentalists.

Rodney explained it better than I could have. He's absolutely right.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

It's what you think and do, not just what you do.

The Oracle says the relevant (not the rotating blades thing) definition of fan is "A person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular sport, art or entertainment form, or famous person." Not a person who does something in particular; that is secondary.

edited 5th Apr '12 9:22:44 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I agree. Which makes me... right. A person with strong interest in anthropomorphic characters is a part of furry fandom.

That's not defining a fandom, that's stereotyping one.

edited 5th Apr '12 7:26:21 PM by pawsplay

Someone who watches Bugs Bunny cartoons or plays Starfox doesn't necessarily have a strong interest in anthropomorphic animals. Or even a weak one; that might be completely incidental.

edited 5th Apr '12 9:10:06 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Pawsplay, I don't understand why you're so intent on assigning people to fandoms they don't want to be a part of.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

I didn't say they did. But if they do, they are a fan, whether they own a fursuit or not.

Why are you so intent on not identifying people as belonging to a group to which they do in fact belong?

Imagine if someone came on here and starting claiming it was unwanted and offensive to describe people as "bisexual" simply because they had some male relationships and some female; "Bisexuals should only include people who self-identify as bisexuals."

Further, this really drifts into No True Scotsman territory: "Person who likes furry media is a part of furry random," "No, members of furry fandoms identify with furry characters," "Well, some don't," "Then they aren't really furries."

So basically I am calling the objections fallacious. Not evil, bad, or malign, but simply wrong.

Ultimatly being a "Furry" is a matter of self-identification. There are various things that people that self-identify as furries tend to be into.

However, being into one of those various things without the concurrent self-identification doesn't make you a furry.

As for Anime, keep in mind that anime is a medium in the context of a specific country, not a genre. Presumably there are plenty of people that might be interested in a particular anime because they like the type of story it tells, while being indifferent to the fact that it happens to be a animated show produced in Japan. A science fiction fan might like Outlaw Star because they think it is a good science fiction work. Not because it is a cartoon produced in Japan. They will not view Ouran High School Host Club as being anything in remotely the same category.

Properly speaking, "bisexual" requires sexual attraction to both genders. One can have sexual relations with both genders without being sexually attracted to both genders. And there are some screwy variations on sexual attraction that I'd rather not get into here, but suffice it to say that I wouldn't call the practices of the Classical Greeks (for example) bisexual in the modern sense of the word, even though they had relationships (an even attraction) with male and females.

edited 5th Apr '12 8:18:55 PM by Catbert

Catbert makes more good points.

Pawsplay, you're in the minority here, because you're wrong. Just accept it and move on so the rest of us can fix this badly-written, incorrect article.

Do we need a crowner to define what a furry is, or can we just make this happen?

edited 5th Apr '12 8:34:02 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

It's cool. We just need to clean the article. I'm sorry for the anime crack.

Don't be sorry, it was funny. I knew you were joking, and not seriously trying to tell me that I'm part of a fandom - and I see furries as more than just a fandom anyway - that I'm not part of and don't want anything to do with.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

This part in particular really sticks out in telling people what they should identify as:

Note the "should".

something

Something just came to me - why do we need this page at all? Do we have pages on other fandoms? We might, but I haven't seen any. We don't have one on anime fandom, I don't think. Even if we keep this, it needs to be a neutral, just-the-facts description of the fandom, with tropes that show how they're depicted in the media. No qualifying, no lumping people into it, no more defensive tone. I would like to write a sandbox, but I don't think I know enough about the fandom to do it.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.