This page needs to die: Ensemble Darkhorse.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic

Agreed, cutlist without discussion is for things that are really far from this site's purpose, not for things that can be fixed.

Alright, are we done?

Yeah I'm pretty sure we're done here, page is fixed and we responsible Brony-Tropers will keep an eye on the page.

I guess it's better than before, but I still suggest on trimming it more and putting it in the Ensemble Darkhorse / Western Animation part.

This.

I still stand by with what I said - it can't be an ED if every character has a fan. The idea of ED is that a character has a fan... that stands out compared to the rest who don't have any fans. Listing a page dedicated for ED of a show pretty much removes the idea of an ED. Sure the trope is subjective, but at the same time not everyone knows the meaning of the trope clearly.

Except that it's not listing 'every character'. The characters on the page stand out compared to all the ones that aren't mentioned.

I can't really know since I'm not a fan of the show, but I know there are many background characters: the point is, did this page list most characters that ever played a certain role or part, even for a couple of seconds? Bearing in mind that this was a growing list, as well.

No, not even close. Just for comparison, here's a list of ponies. As you can see, only a small fraction have risen to prominence.

To take just one example, consider Octavia. She appeared as part of a band, but her bandmates have been completely ignored, despite having the exact same amount of screentime.

edited 1st Feb '12 7:38:25 PM by storyyeller

But they're listing every character, with or without a name (and listing fan names beside them). Even ones that do nothing. I'm not sure if that's a good list. I was saying, in comparison to characters who do things.

As far as those bandmates...I don't know. I see your point, but it's hard to use examples like that in this case.

edited 1st Feb '12 8:36:38 PM by helterskelter

The list is the list of everypony that every showed up on Fi M, while the Ensemble Dark Horse page lists only the extremely popular of those.

I'm aware. I was asking about characters who do anything significant on screen—are most of those all listed there?

It still can be fitted to the main Ensemble Dark Horse / Western Animation subpage with just a little customization - all it needs is a folder sorting like other subpages.

Naw, it needs its own page. Even trimmed down, it's still significantly more than the other entries in Western Animation. With Season 3 coming up, we can probably expect more later. I wouldn't mind putting all the generations for the My Little Pony series together on the same page though. That way, we can add in the ponies that sustained through or became popular because of Friendship is Magic.

My criteria for Darkhorses is how widespread they are (in terms of quantity of work and across how many creators) and whether it's sustained. If they're still getting fan works from multiple creators a few months after they become popular, it's a good bet that they're an Ensemble Dark Horse.

I wouldn't say that it's about if they get loads of fanart and stuff. It's if they get significantly more of it than other ponies. Without the comparison, you can argue that any popular non-main character is an Ensemble Dark Horse.

That said, it does seem like they need their own page.

edited 5th Feb '12 8:13:53 AM by Feather7603

That would be the definition of Ensemble Dark Horse, yes. It was never about how their popularity compares to the other characters. Only about how popular they get with the fans. It only turns out that way in this case because of the misusing and sheer number of characters that ended up on the page who got popular because they were new and then fades back to the background.

It was never about how their popularity compares to the other characters.

No. An ED is measured at the main characters, to be an ED a character has to be at least as popular as the main characters. The ED has to stand out compared to other characters. Just having fans is not enough to be an ED. If the fandom is big enough every character has a fandom.

The point is, it is really unlikly for a show to have more that lets say three E Ds unless it is a really long running show. Enough E Ds to fill a page is nearly impossible.

Well, a lot of the E Ds are more popular than named side characters with actual roles in the show.

Getting piles of fanart long after they never show up again is not enough to qualify as an Ensemble Dark Horse. Otherwise everyone in Touhou would qualify as an Ensemble Dark Horse, which is absurd. In a big enough and crazy enough fandom, which MLP surely is, every character has fans. Including the characters with no names who show up once in the background. And they will continue to have (multiple) fans years later after never showing up again and the show is canceled and no one else cares. There will still be at least a dozen works of fanart drawn every week. I guarantee it. Waiting for a month or a year or a decade is meaningless.

What's important is whether their popularity high even when compared to the main characters. Are they likely to be mistaken for a main character by someone who doesn't actively participate in the fandom? Really, it's only reasonable for there to be one or two examples. If crazy fans keep adding things that clearly aren't examples by any reasonable measure, then locking is a logical thing to do.

edited 6th Feb '12 1:13:45 PM by Clarste

My point of view that an ED is popularity in relativity. A unnamed background character might not be as popular as the main characters, but if he's as popular as a secondary character, that's really popular.

That said, it still means that we have to think of MLP:FiM in relative terms. When so many characters are popular, who are the most popular of them? The fandom clearly strongly latches on to minor characters, so the popularity is relative to how popular those minor characters get—which is why we should probably be comparing EDs against Luna and Derpy.

edited 6th Feb '12 12:01:25 PM by helterskelter

I agree, Luna and Dery should be the tool we meassure with, but they also shouldn't be a rule, just a rule of thumb. (like say...Trixie is nearly as popular as both, but there are unnamed ponies that come close to her but don't touch Luna and Derpy. If that makes any sense)