Needlessly specific name: Stab The Scorpion

First things first, we need to establish what this trope is before deciding how to name it. If the laconic is accurate, this is about someone looking like they're going to attack character X, but actually attacking someone who was about to attack character X instead. As far as this goes, Stab the Scorpion doesn't seem like a very indicative name; if I had to guess the trope from the title alone, I would think it was about some character being too dangerous to be left alive or something.

Also, I'm not sure whether it's supposed to seem like that to both the character and the audience, or if it would still count if only the character was supposed to misunderstand as such. (I mention this because the subject came up in this YKTTW of mine.)

edited 2nd Jan '12 1:05:04 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

Yeah, I'd say a rename for Stab the Scorpion is a good idea. (I'd also say that the difference between Stab the Scorpion and that YKTTW is that Stab the Scorpion is about what the audience thinks, while the YKTTW is about what the character thinks.)

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Yes, I'd agree those two tropes could be differentiated along those lines, though there will probably be a lot of overlapping examples.

Agree with and .

There are no heroes left in Man.

Is it the only distinction, though? Stab the Scorpion seems to be about threats from other living creatures, while my YKTTW is about, well, help mistaken for attacks in general.

Besides, some examples of help mistaken for attack might be mistaken for it by the audience as well. I'm not very familiar with the context of my Karate Kid example, and for all I know it could have been set up to look like an attack to the audience as well.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

For close sister tropes like these, it's to be expected that a lot of examples will fall under both tropes, and some will only fall under one of them.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to restrict Stab the Scorpion to "killing living creatures" specifically — we could easily expand it. As far as which examples go under which trope, someone familiar with the example would probably be able to tell what the audience was expected to believe. I'm not familiar with the Karate Kid example, for instance, but for The Rescuers Down Under example it's pretty clear that it's a case of Help Mistaken for Attack rather than Stab the Scorpion.

edited 2nd Jan '12 5:04:22 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

In theory, you'd think that. In practice, though, that's the same thing the distinction between Accidental Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel hinged on, and that didn't work out so well.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

I don't think it's quite that bad. If the audience knows for a fact that the character doesn't mean any harm (like the example from The Rescuers Down Under), then it's Help Mistaken for Attack. If it's not clear whether they're actually attacking or not, then that's Stab the Scorpion.

Both of those tropes need better names.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I agree on both accounts.

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This is actually a pre-existing term originating outside of the wiki. It has a good wik count, good usage rates, and from a quick look at the wiks it's being used correctly.

Matt, you need to stop proposing renames for tropes that are working because you don't like the names. It's not productive. Prove misuse before making another of these threads.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Are you sure? I Googled for "stab the scorpion" and "scorpion stab" with -site:tvtropes.org and I didn't get any relevant hits.

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:06:35 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I'm sure. Someone pulled up a bunch of stuff last time this one came up.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Agree with everything everyone has said.

If this is an established term, then we should at least have some good redirects, because I've never heard it and would never look for it with that term.

edited 2nd Jan '12 8:05:45 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

I'm not finding anything on this term.

Me either.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Pretty sure this trope is a "psych". It's presented in a way that makes it look like one thing is happening, but what's actually happening is something different—much like the snowclone Stab the Salad.

This is good policy in general, yes.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

How about something like Stab The Scorpion On Your Back?

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Egad, no.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Do we still want this renamed?

Well first we have to come up with a decent name.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Or not.

Why rename at all?

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I don't see any reason to rename. As I feel like I've said several times in the past few weeks, there's no reason why a trope name is bad for being "needlessly specific". People can (and do) intuit that the specific case in a trope name is referring to a broader trope. Renaming it to something more general will make it less memorable, and therefore, usable. If you think the trope is hard to find with a search, redirects are cheap.

We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!

Even if the name is terribly awful, need to like convincingly demonstrate that (which very frequently is accomplished with evidence, but it is possible to do it without), not just say "I think it's terribly awful".

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I like the name.