Anime/Yu Yu Hakusho [Revived]

I felt he was far nicer by the end though.

Regarding Hiei's characterization, I feel he was basically a insecure teenager who lies all the time to put up a tough front and acts all cool but, in actuality, is a total nerd. For example, in some of the drama cds, he claims to know more about human culture than he actually does. He also lies in the manga and anime, all the time, about how much he cares about his team mates. Getting him to help is like pulling teeth but he just needs an excuse to join in and he'll be there.

He's always got a chip on his shoulder though so it's nice to have Kurama around (and Yusuke of course) always picking at him.

Yeah, he is an asshole but a asshole who actually cares deep, deep, down. He's like a Demon (Goth/Emo) Rainbow Dash. He's been through some shit and just decided, "Hey, they said I was an evil monster, welp, I might as well try to be the evilest (little) shit ever."

I really wish we had some filler episodes to really see more interactions with the characters. Hell, I would love more episodes in general. DBZ and Bleach fans have it easy.

@Soble Also, lol, yeah, that was pretty great!

Edited by Rainbowraptor on Nov 8th 2018 at 5:40:27 AM

Hei is one of those Tsundere things isn't he? "I'm saving your life...but it's not like I want to save your life or like you or anything." That's basically what went down when he saved Yusuke from Sniper.

I'm nearing the end of Chapter Black during my rewatch. I think it's a lot better than the Dark Tournament which is a contrasting opinion to my younger self. My main complaints are the ending, which I have never liked and I do not anticipate liking it any more this time around, and also the fact Sensui has the most absurdly long neck ever.

A big problem with the Dark Tournament though and oneI never thought about until the rewatch is he fact Genkai and Toguro's relationship is only revealed immediately before her death. That whole backstory is really important yet it's pretty much just sprung on us out of nowhere.

[uo] There really isn't much character development or focus in YYH compared to a lot of more recent shounen in my experience. Yusuke gets most of the attention.

Edited by Nikkolas on Nov 8th 2018 at 6:09:41 AM

I had totally forgotten about Yusuke's "so you eat people. Well okay" attitude in Three Kings. It's by far the most interesting thing in the arc. I mean, he made a good point. The demons were literally made the way they are. Are they to hate their very nature and die slow, agonizing deaths like Raizen?

Overall, this really is the Yusuke Show feat. Kuwabara. They are by far the best characters. Perhaps Kuwabara's absence is why nobody likes the last arc.

http://tickingtimepalm.tumblr.com/post/74394683964/yoshihiro-togashi-interview-after-the-conclusion quite an interesting read regarding Yoshihiro Togashi "quitting" YuYu Hakusho and his hiatuses of Hunter × Hunter . make me wonder if Togashi disowns the former manga in a sense.

Edited by Wazzupguys on Dec 1st 2018 at 11:21:29 AM

It was at this point in the series Togashi had simply run out of ideas. So when his editor asked him about Hiei's next opponent, Togashi shrugged. "I don't know, have him fight Goku."

His editor gave him a deadpan expression, but Togashi was adamant. "Look, they can't all have amazing, complicated powers okay? Just... just give him ki, call it "battle aura" whatever, and make his aura color green instead of yellow. We'll call him Bui. It's one letter shorter than Goku, we'll make him some kind of kung fu yoga master, and no one will make the connection."

This is actually my second favorite fight in the series right after Yusuke vs Doctor Kamiya.

Edited by Soble on Jan 8th 2019 at 1:28:49 AM

So I'm told that Togashi had a more elaborate idea for Three Kings but his editors forced him to do a tournament?

Here's a random thought (unless I've brought it up before, which is possible cause I sometimes forget old posts):

Do you guys think Kuwabara can do with the Dimension Sword all the things he learned to do with his regular Spirit Sword?

Like make it extend, create two, make it curve, fire off tiny energy blades, etc?

Cause the Dimensional Sword on it's own is pretty broken (with only Kuwarbara being weaker than the other preventing it from being far more dangerous), but if he could do that stuff....

I mean. I suppose there's nothing stopping him. I feel like with how Yusuke had limited bullets with his Spirit Gun, and Hiei got KO'd after each use of    DOTF   , and how Kurama couldn't always access his Yoko form - the Dimension Sword is probably limited by Kuwabara's imagination at least.

(2) No idea.

Huh. Togashi, according to that interview (from like a year ago 'cause the thread got necro'd yesterday), wanted to just stop making YYH around the time Yusuke's battle with Sensui started.

I feel that. I've always thought that Yusuke and Sensui's fight marked a sudden sharp decline for the series. It starts off well enough; Sensui has different personalities each with their own powerset, which could make for an interesting and creative fight, and we get to see that at the start.

But then Sensui's just like "F*ck this", turns into a Super Saiyan, and never unveils most of his powersets. Then Yusuke turns into a Super Duper Saiyan, everything gets f*ckstupid, and the series never recovers.

It's long been a belief of mine that the series should have ended at the Dark Tournament, since it was a pretty epic finale, all things considered. The Sensui arc had a lot of interesting ideas, but got really dumb once Sensui himself took center stage, so I wouldn't feel too bad losing it.

It's kinda vindicating to know I wasn't just seeing things. The Sensui fight was, indeed, the moment Yu Yu Hakusho became a Franchise Zombie.

EDIT: Incidentally, the Sensui fight in YYH was one of my first experiences with that immersion-breaking "Wait, what the f*ck?" feeling that takes you abruptly out of the story's universe and has you questioning the writing instead.

The Dark Tournament's final battle between Yusuke and Toguro hinges on the idea that Toguro represents the ultimate in sheer brute physical strength, while Yusuke is carrying Genkai's legacy: raw spiritual power. It's a clash between Yusuke's immense spirit energy versus Toguro's immense physical power.

In the Sensui fight, before the reveal of Sacred Energy makes the whole point moot, Sensui correctly asserts that Yusuke, as he is, is incapable of defeating him. The reason for this, he explains, is that Yusuke has immense physical power, but his spirit energy is basically nonexistant. He ain't got shit for spirit strength, so he's forced to fight Sensui on his massive physical power alone and that won't cut it.

These two scenes are not reconcilable with one another. As a kid, this contradiction always bugged me, even before I had the critical eye to really understand why.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 5th 2019 at 12:05:46 PM

I don't think there's necessarily a problem there. Yusuke isn't lacking in spiritual power, Sensui just ha s a lot more of it. Similarly, Sensui lacks physical strength while Yusuke excels at that.

The thing about "Minoru" - the Sensui we see up until Kazuya and then the real Sensui - is that he's the dark counterpart to Yusuke. Weak, but Skilled compared to Yusuke. His many years of training and his martial arts give him the edge over Yusuke who is not stupid but is still pretty new to all this and was certainly never trained in precision CQC. he emphasizes leg techniques while Yusuke punches shit. The backstory we get for Sensui shows he was fanatically devoted to duty while Yusuke was always slacking off out of fear. And so on and so on.

It's why he was a great villain until the end.

Edited by Nikkolas on Aug 5th 2019 at 12:18:19 PM

EDIT: That's closer to the impression I had. Sensui going Super Saiyan is disappointing in hindsight but it didn't bring down the rest of the series for me.

I liked the anime version of the Three Kings arc. It had an unusual ending and Yusuke's angst over his purpose in life, and his eventual loss to Yomi felt, and still feel, unique.

I mean listen to Yusuke question himself here.

You never get that kind of introspection from Goku, Luffy, Gon, or any other shonen protagonist.

Edited by Soble on Aug 5th 2019 at 7:08:49 AM

Yeah I thought Yusuke vs Sensui (pre-super saiyan) was about Strength vs Skill, not Physical power vs Spirit Power.

Agreed. I genuinely thought it was the best of the 3 "final boss" fights the anime had.

Edited by Moth13 on Aug 5th 2019 at 9:35:51 AM

The decline in the manga was even more obvious from what I understand since the weekly art was getting rougher and rougher. I don't remember if Togashi ever went back and fixed it for the volumes like he does for Hunter x Hunter.

I agree that the Sensui fight is where things went really downhill. When the arc started off I thought it was nice that Yusuke's strength was still a big deal instead of being So Last Season - given how big a deal it was to the dark tournament's plot - and originally Sensui was strong, but claimed himself to be lacking in strength and making up for it in his experience. And then Yusuke is able to make up for his lack of experience by using is ingenuity to pull a stunt Sensui wouldn't expect... and thens go downhill. Sensui reveals his multiple personalities, and somehow changing personalities can also turn his hand into a gun, and also his power level was way, way beyond Yusuke's all along.

It was just such a huge swerve and really unsatisfactory. However, I think that the anime version of the three kings arc is pretty good, and actually liked the change to a tournament because it suited Yusuke very well.

All these political tensions while each faction plots and schemes, and Yusuke just comes in with "let's just cut the bullshit and duke it out" and Yomi's just like "huh, fair enough I reckon".

I also don't think that dark tournament would be a good place to end the series, that arc had its own issues (and really dragged) and doesn't feel like a cultimation of the rest of the series.

...So, if we were to rank the 4 main characters of YYH, outside of Yusuke being at the top, and Kuwabara being at the bottom, how would you do it?

In other words, who do we believe is stronger between Hiei and Kurama?

Now, the fact that Hiei has made it clear he'd never want to fuck with Kurama under any circumstances doesn't necessarily mean he's weaker (maybe earlier in the series, especially once Kurama starts tapping his Youko powers more fully), so much as he's smart enough to know raw power might not matter. Kurama is clever and strategic enough that he could potentially take Hiei out well before the latter Single stroke Speed Blitzes him into pieces.

And we've seen the shit that Kurama has done to people; Hiei will kill you, but he'll do it quickly, even if he legitimately hates you. But if you anger Kurama....oh...poor Elder Toguro. You deserved it, but still, poor poor Elder Toguro.

So any ranking between the two post Three Kings Arc?

Given the best of both worlds - Kurama couldn't do anything to Yomi and Hiei was at least pressuring Mukuro in a match (in the anime).

Hiei would pulverize Kurama were they to come to blows, much like Superman fighting Batman. Problem is, much like in that example, Kurama probably wouldn't entertain the idea of fighting Hiei in a fair fight.

I don't know that it's necessarily about strength. But I'd rank Kurama second and Hiei third. Here's why.

I believe, were they to come to blows, that a fight between Hiei and Kurama could end any number of ways. I think Hiei has a lot of options that Kurama couldn't survive, and I haven't seen anything to suggest Kurama could withstand Hiei's ultimate move, the Dragon of the Darkness Flame.

HOWEVER

I think Kurama has a lot of options that Hiei couldn't survive too. I think Kurama's wide variety of unpredictable murder plants would present a very difficult obstacle for Hiei to overcome.

So I could honestly see a fight between them ending either way. Or even BOTH ways. I could totally see a scenario where Kurama is consumed by the Dragon but Hiei gets ripped apart by one of the plants Kurama laid. Double-kill is totes on the table in a hypothetical Hiei v. Kurama match.

That said.

Were a fight to break out between Yusuke and Kurama, I could see the same thing. I see a lot of ways Yusuke could beat Kurama, and I see a lot of ways Kurama could beat Yusuke. It's not really clear to me who would be the ultimate victor between them.

BUT

I don't see the same thing for Yusuke v. Hiei. While Kurama's something of an outlier on the "X Beats Y" hierarchy, Yusuke and Hiei are more of a straight fight. With the Spirit Wave under Yusuke's belt, I don't know if even the Darkness Flame could consume him like it would Kurama; Yusuke might just pull a Bui or Sensui and use his Spirit Energy to repel its assault.

If he doesn't pull a Mukuro and blow it apart with his Spirit Gun down its gullet.

Either way, we're meant to believe that Darkness Imbued Hiei still couldn't have beaten the Younger Toguro. So while it's possible that Kurama's trickiness might claim a V over Yusuke under the right circumstances, I think Hiei falls into a more clear-cut Yusuke > Hiei shonen hierarchy.

Thus: Yusuke > Kurama > Hiei > Kuwabara

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 19th 2019 at 12:05:25 PM

Karasu delivering one of the creepiest speeches I've ever heard in an anime

I was just rewatching this part of the Yusuke/Sensui rematch and I think, "how cool would this look in live-action?"

Who would play Yusuke? Who would play Sensui? The attack rushes wouldn't happen, but seeing some Ong Bak Warrior/The Raid-style streetfights would be damned awesome.

And a live-action adaption of the Sensui arc? That's printing money. I've wondered how Yu Yu could continue or be relevant today - besides some half-assed anniversary cameos in J-Stars, or OVA's.

A live-action film? Heck, if Jojo, Fullmetal, and Parasyte can do it.

A powerful Kuwabara moment.

'gets the purest girl'

First off, gross.

Secondly, lol. Never ends up with her and she never shows any acknowledgement of his affections

There's probably something a little weird about talking of the purest girl but, like, that's what Yukina is all about so I dunno.

Just think of it like having a pure heart. She's Jesus. Or Harry Potter.

Edited by Nikkolas on Mar 31st 2020 at 8:54:13 AM

Yeah that's absolutely not what that commenter was thinking of

Westerners sometimes use off-putting concepts the Japanese invented in much grosser ways. This is one of them.

Edited by VeryMelon on Apr 1st 2020 at 8:08:35 AM