The Culture of Rape.: Causes and Possible Solutions

Maxima: Did you seriously call third world countries primitive, child-sacrificing shitholes? That's a pretty bad view, even if you were exaggerating. Not as bad as what Matt said, but still something to think over.

edited 15th Dec '11 3:53:25 PM by Katrika

Is this a running hobby to blame capitalism for everything under the sun??

No, but, seriously, I get how Marxism makes that link between means of production and gender inequality, but it's still a reach to me.

Now....if you want to talk about how we equate a guy being rich with a guy being able to ahve any woman he chooses.....

Yes Kat I did. I did not say that every country that doesn't have the U.S.'s GDP is automatically full of evil assholes. But I most certainly saying that there's quantifiable evidence that in places where there is little in the way of education or economic prospects, rape is almost a given.

We tend to call these places...third world shitholes.

edited 15th Dec '11 3:59:39 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

The Third World is pretty bad, but it's not all tinpot dictatorships and such. A lot of it is just poor, which, although not good, isn't quite the same issue.

@Milos,

That's not really the right phrasing for that. It's more like, "what the fucking hell is wrong with this country?"

Wait a sec... -goes a page back-

I have burly Serbian friends that'd like to gut you alive for daring to say something like that. Just sayin'.

Many Americans need to stop with the utterly condescending attitude towards other nations. Really. Quit that.

edited 15th Dec '11 3:58:45 PM by MilosStefanovic

Word.

Okay, let's clear this up once and for all, cause I want lively debate and insight sharing, not a derail.

This is not a case of American bias. I, and I imagine a good few fellow tropers, are Americans. We have a sense of pride in our nation which we won't apologize for.

We simply hold it to a higher standard. I imagine a Brit, a Canadian, an Irelander, etc would all feel the same way.

We are not saying that just because a country doesn't have all the...."bling", I guess...that America does that it is bad.

We are saying that rape seems to be a given in places where teenagers are made into soldiers who then blow up villages. Which is NOT good, in any way.

That's all.

Rape is equally bad in any part of the word. Period. Raping an American is in no way worse than raping a Zimbabwean. Humans are humans, no matter their nationality, faith or skin color.

Your statement is correct beyond a doubt. Nobody here would argue that.

We are saying that a country that will send it's young men and women across the world to fight terrorism and despotism really should be far more caring of it's female citizenry.

In other words, if a woman finds the same level of being afraid of assault in Chicago as she does in Rwanda, then we've got a fucking problem.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:08:39 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

My friend came up with a good saying I've adopted as a (highly morbid) motto for this topic:

"Rape is rape is wrong."

Period.

I don't really give a damn if it's the United States of America or the People's Democratic Republic of Free Liberty Backwaters, rape is fucking bad.

The only real difference is in what kind of power we have to do anything about it. As an American, the US is much closer, and therefore (should be) much easier to fix. That shit like this is going on here makes me mad because I should be able to do something about it, but I don't know what and probably can't, at this point.

So, so frustrating...

What he said.

I feel obliged to dispute that, but that isn't the subject of this thread.

Actually, I agree with this. Still, you should be more careful about your rhetoric in the future - you didn't put it quite well and it caused confusion.

@USAF: Perfectly said.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:12:23 PM by MilosStefanovic

Along with what USAF is saying, I too have wondered what I have done to play into rape culture and what I can do to stop it.

One thing I think we can do is to make it a BIG FUCKING DEAL.

To explain, here in NYC, there was a time when it wasn't uncommon to see a guy bitching at a woman in the street.

I'm quite pleased to say that now it is extremely uncomfortable for a man to appear too aggressive against a woman in public in any way.

Maybe that needs to spread from major cities and to rural areas and less developed areas as well.

I don't think I in any way dissed countries that "aren't America." But I'll be more careful on the subject regardless.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:14:38 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

Claiming that women should socially be more "protected" than men, through "chivalry" or whatever, is a bad thing. It reinforces the stereotype that women are the weaker sex and unable to fend for themselves without the protection of men, which may be one of the causes why rape against women is so widespread. It is also kinda sexist. If men thought that a woman could be able to kick their asses in such situations just like a man would, the level of rape would certainly be much lower.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:18:14 PM by MilosStefanovic

Um, Milos, I don't know if I'm with you on that one. It sounds like a case of enthusiastic feminism and liberalism ignoring hard fact.

Women, on the average, are weaker than men. They don't have the bone density, the muscle mass, the height, or the reach. All these things make a difference in a one-on-one struggle. Yes, Serena Williams could probably beat the shit out of both me and you (and look sexy doing it) but not every woman could.

So, I think it's a good thing that law enforcement acknowledges this and acts accordingly.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:22:55 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

[1]

I get the feeling I'd be able to evaluate this better if I knew who more about what rapists think, and what justifications they use for their actions.

^^ I've never understood how that works, from a mechanical perspective. Sure, the guy may be stronger, but he'd need to immobilize the woman's arms, spread her legs, and prevent her from biting him. (Then again, a lot of rapes involve drugs or alcohol . . .)

edited 15th Dec '11 4:24:59 PM by feotakahari

It's true that women are weaker, but they certainly are capable of putting up a fight, if need be. Every woman on Earth should be strong and independent, not a submissive sex drone waiting for a Prince Charming to buy her pretty clothes and nice jewellery. In society, women are expected to be weaker and more gentle, which is wrong.

edited 15th Dec '11 4:28:58 PM by MilosStefanovic

^ There's a reason why if I had a daughter I'd teach her how to draw and fire a pistol on someone by the time she's 16. (And care for that pistol and use it safely and properly too!) To say nothing of how to defend herself without a firearm.

Indeed. As I've learned over time, many of the assumptions I (and others, though it's worse that I ever made such assumptions) made about the typical rape case are wrong.

• Most rapes happen between people who know each other. Worse yet, a lot of it is spousal rape.
• A disproportionate number of rapes (and not just "60/40," so much as it's 91/9) are against women, and almost all rapes are perpetrated by men (99%). So, anybody who goes "but women rape men, too!" is being ignorant. Does it happen? Yes. Is it terrible? Yes. Is it prevalent? Not in the slightest.
• Mind-bogglingly enough, the rate of rape is going up. Right now, it's 1/5th. In 2005, it was 1/6th.
• The majority of rapes occur in homes. Specifically, a little less than a third in the perpetrator's home, about a quarter in the victim's home, and about a tenth in a home the perpetrator and victim share. The rest occur at various other places, like in cars, at bars, etc.
• We barely have any data on female-to-female rape, and there very well could be more numbers we aren't counting because of it.
• Only about 18-20% of forcible rapes are reported. ~10% of rapes committed with the use of drugs (i.e. date-rape drugging) are reported.
• Edit: Also, the majority of rapes do involve alcohol (47% where both parties were drinking, 17% where only the perpetrator was drinking, and 7% where only the victim was drinking).

edited 15th Dec '11 4:34:10 PM by USAF713

The actual rate is closer to 55/45 based on several factors. But the female to male rape ratio has an incredibly high rate of non-reporting. (Something on the order of 8 in 10 female to male rapes goes unreported.)

Thread Hopping back to @6 for a moment, it's true that that gangsta and rap culture can be misogynistic, but that same thing is also true about a lot of other cultures/social groups, at least in the US. Sports cultures are often misogynistic, geek culture is still very misogynistic, etc.

Milos: Although, of course, there's nothing wrong with a woman being meek or liking to look pretty or being feminine either, it's just that women shouldn't feel they HAVE to be defenseless or rely on men for things.

One Hypothesis on why the rate is so high: The cultural idea that A Man Is Not A Virgin.

If a whole lot of boys and men are raised with the notion that in order to prove their masculinity they need to be having a lot of sex, and getting shamed by society when they aren't having sex, then you end up with a lot of young men who feel there is something wrong with them if they aren't getting laid, and will go pretty far in order to rectify this.

It's an interesting theory, but I don't know how you'd go about testing the validity of it.

@Major Tom,

I'm not entirely disinclined to believe that, but I'd like to see a citation before I pass judgement.

It has also to do with the gender roles and how the idea is for males to "conquer" females, and females being conquered. This mindset is why males pressure females. Of course, not everyone goes against the explicit will of the female, but rapists do...

I think that rape usually grows from this mindset in the first place. I mean, it happens in the animal realm all the time. Humans aren't really that different. Which is why I believe that it's impossible to fight rape by trying to abolish the common gender roles as they are now, and the usual mindset males and females have regarding relationships. Now I'm not going to stop you from trying, but I think if you want to be effective, other ways are preferable. Which is why this shouldn't be an issue of sexism and whatnot, but an issue of violence.