TV Tropes Org

Forums

search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [43]  1
2

Pressure/coercion in sex and the misguided focus on age and semantics.:

 26 Excelion, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:12:35 PM from The Fatherland
The Johan Lieberts among us certainly exist.
We really shouldn't live in a world where there are 12 year olds I can morally justify executing.
Two ways one can interpret that statement. Both are true.

 28 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:16:06 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Johan who?

Well... the intended interpretation is supposed to be "in a rational and sane world, children—and, for that matter, the rest of us—would never do such vile actions."
I am now known as Flyboy.
 29 Milos Stefanovic, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:16:16 PM from White City, Ruritania
Decemberist
This line of thinking is completely wrong.

Why? If they have betrayed their privileged child-status by commiting a crime so heinous, they should be judged by adult standards.

[up]Johan Liebert, from the anime/manga Monster.

edited 9th Dec '11 4:16:46 PM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
 30 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:17:50 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Why? If they have betrayed their privileged child-status by commiting a crime so heinous, they should be judged by adult standards.

Agreed.

Also, that explains it. Not much of an anime/manga person, though I've heard of that particular one through this site, even if I don't know any of the details about it... isn't it something about a doctor and blackmail, or whatever...? Bleh, whatever.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 31 Excelion, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:20:24 PM from The Fatherland
[up][up]I meant that "you shouldn't need to create extra laws for niche situations that don't really fit". You should. Just because it rarely happens doesn't make it okay for the law to go "LOL I DUNNO".

If they have betrayed their privileged child-status by commiting a crime so heinous

You can't "lose" your privileged child-status. Either you're a child, or you're not. There's been worse crimes committed by children and these children weren't stuffed in jail or whatever.

Claiming "the usual law doesn't apply here because the crime was so morally disgusting", I find to be digusting.

edited 9th Dec '11 4:20:43 PM by Excelion

 32 Milos Stefanovic, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:20:25 PM from White City, Ruritania
Decemberist
[up][up]You can read the summary from the trope page. It's pretty good, and I recommend it.

[up]I don't think I've put myself quite well - I was thinking about anything more complex than "In case that a minor commits X, he should be judged by adult standards" is redundant.

edited 9th Dec '11 4:24:06 PM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
 33 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:22:13 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Well, you can't really lose your child status if you are still a child, but you can prove that you are comprehensive enough of morality that you should be judged by adult standards, or that you're dangerous enough to warrant it anyhow.

Though if we're talking mental illness institutionalization would be more appropriate.

Edit:
There's been worse crimes committed by children and these children weren't stuffed in jail or whatever.

Worse than gang rape...?

And those things, by the way, would warrant a bullet, not a jail cell, regardless of age.

edited 9th Dec '11 4:23:08 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 34 Excelion, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:29:50 PM from The Fatherland
Worse than gang rape...?

Jesse Pomeroy was fourteen when he was arrested in 1874 for the sadistic murder of a four-year-old boy. He was quickly dubbed "The Boston Boy Fiend." His rampage had begun three years earlier with the sexual torture of seven other boys. For those crimes Pomeroy was sentenced to reform school, but then he was released early. Not long afterward he mutilated and killed a 10-year-old girl who came into his mother's store. A month later, he snatched four-year-old Horace Mullen. He took Horace to a swamp outside town and slashed him so savagely with a knife that he nearly decapitated the child.

Charming.
 35 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:33:00 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
And people like him are the reason I consider those who want to do away with the death penalty to be absurdly immoral in their own, hopelessly naive way.
I am now known as Flyboy.
We really shouldn't live in a world where there are 12 year olds I can morally justify executing.
Who says execution in particular is morally justified? So long as society is more lenient on 12-year-olds than adults for practically everything, this may as well include even the worst of crimes.
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
 37 Milos Stefanovic, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:38:51 PM from White City, Ruritania
Decemberist
An individual's freedom ends where an other individual's freedom begins. Blatantly disrespecting somebody's right to live means that you don't deserve having your's. And no, humanity isn't "above that". Humanity, being an universal term, cannot be judged by any objective moral standards since there isn't a more universal category to judge it by. It doesn't have any objective value traits, apart from being itself. Duh.

edited 9th Dec '11 4:44:06 PM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
 38 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:43:12 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Who says execution in particular is morally justified?

~shrug~

I do, for one.

So long as society is more lenient on 12-year-olds than adults for practically everything, this may as well include even the worst of crimes.

Why? We only judge those things that 12 year olds do that is appropriate for children more leniently. Rape and murder are not appropriate for children—or anyone, really—and I don't see why I should judge them any differently than an adult doing the same thing if they've obviously demonstrated that they don't deserve the privilege of such.
I am now known as Flyboy.
*hangs his head*

I can't put in words why that is wrong. I can't make it understood why thinking "the right to life is too important for anyone to take, anyone except us of course" is wrong. Is it arrogance, is it hypocrisy that blinds them? Hubris, even? I don't know.

 40 USAF713, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:51:48 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
I don't particularly want to start a capital punishment derail, but basically it amounts to, for me, yes the right to life is profoundly important, but if we punish a murderer or rapist or any other kind of morally-reprehensible person with anything less than a clean, simple death, where is our sense of justice?

That's merely my opinion. Take it (or leave it) as you will.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 41 Excelion, Fri, 9th Dec '11 4:55:38 PM from The Fatherland
 42 feotakahari, Fri, 9th Dec '11 5:01:05 PM from Looking out at the city
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
Skipping all that and replying to the OP, I can think of one case in which adults can be prosecuted for pressuring other adults into sex.
That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
... anyway, the point is, the reason given for drawing the line based on age is the power imbalance associated with age difference, but power varies from individual to individual, not just in terms of age, so our response, in turn, should be more individualized.
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
Total posts: 43
 1
2


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy