Have the United States and Israel declared a covert war on Iran?

Well with the way the student protests went, there's several open minded groups within Irans youth who are rather discontent with how things are going.

Time will topple the regime in Iran, we don't need to do anything to ensure it happens, because its already going to happen.

Well, considering that they were planning to assasinate diplomats in the United States, they certainly have some assassination coming to them: After all, reprisals are fair game.

Killing both head honchoes would knock the country into a civil war. And the theocracy itself is plenty unpopular to begin with: It's quite likely that it wouldn't survive the clash.

The only problem is a possible backfire that forces both factions to work together against the invader... But it's a small risk: Both camps only need an excuse to get medieval on each other's throats'n'asses. I think we should encourage'em with all we got.

edited 7th Dec '11 5:01:33 AM by SavageHeathen

They didn't manage to do it, though. We lack good cause.

And if the killing of Iran's nuclear scientists really was the work of Israel, then they didnt even start it.

Honestly, Barkey... That's like saying "the OWS protests show that the US government is going to change soon, and all that's needed is time"... Even if one were to agree with such a statement, the time frame would be upwards of 30 years, if not longer...

The biggest problem with waiting for the Iranian people to overthrow their government, is Iran would likely have nuclear weapons by then...

And since Israel is never going to allow that to happen, a war would occur before any popular revolt did...

Can we please stop the fucking wars and fix our own god damn country first?

Very well. The Israeli Government may prosecute its irrationality alone. I am rather certain, however, that the US population is no longer so sympathetic to them in the face of such stupidity, and would never stand for another war. The US could at best support them logistically, and they would only lose in the long run as the world stage turns against them.

Iran wins either way, really.

^^ No. Not when it comes to countries seeking nukes for no possibly justifiable reason at all.

edited 7th Dec '11 6:01:00 PM by MajorTom

Countries do not need to justify themselves to us when they decide how they wish to work their military technology. We do not get to decide who may have what, and we are arrogant to even consider otherwise.

edited 7th Dec '11 6:04:35 PM by USAF713

It is irresponsible to let nuclear weapons proliferate unchecked, unchallenged, falling into the hands of regimes with less than questionable sanity and restraint. Iran is one such regime.

It is irresponsible to waste the fruits of our labor and the futures of our children on your neoconservative wet dreams, as well.

It would appear that we have reached an impasse.

I agree, but War is simply an option we cannot afford, in lives or cost.

The U.S. can't be buggered to pay dues to the UN, the one body capable of putting a peaceful end to things like this.

You are aware that biological and chemical weapons are considered "military technology," right? I'm sure it's no one should be allowed to make sure that no country is making, stockpiling, or using said military technology, right?

It's not the US(or Israel) that determines whether or not some countries get such weapons... At least, it's not the US alone. The UN as a whole does so...

But since the UN is inept, it's up to the US(and China/Russia) to ensure that said countries who are barred don't actually succeed in obtaining such weapons.

edited 7th Dec '11 6:19:13 PM by Swish

^^^ Then just fire some cruise missiles into their sole oil refinery, blockade their gas imports and watch the Iranian theocracy crumble from within. There are many military options besides sending the 3rd Infantry Division to Tehran.

edited 7th Dec '11 6:19:15 PM by MajorTom

The only issue with that is this: Any ship that fires a missile at Iran isn't getting back out through the Straight of Hormuz... Nor will any ship ever get out of the straight(or even in for that matter) after such a time until a land invasion is made...

Edit: By doing such a thing, you essentially cut off UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Iraq's ports off along with Iran's...

edited 7th Dec '11 6:22:33 PM by Swish

Not to mention cruise missiles usually means act of war.

If the UN cannot be bothered to enforce its own decrees or officially authorize us to do it, they will not be enforced. It's that simple.

Though actually paying our UN dues would be nice...

\*Eyeballs Ticonderoga class missile cruisers*

Yeah I don't see any Iranian retaliatory capability capable of taking on US Navy missile defenses and even hoping to succeed. Especially since we'd then have fair grounds to start flattening their military facilities to the last man. They'd be truly stupid indeed if they didn't learn from Operation: Praying Mantis in the 1980s.

I worked as an Electronic Warfare Technician on a DDG... I basically sat in front of a machine designed to detect enemy missile guidance systems and radar... There were only two missile types(and radars associated with them) that myself and my colleagues feared... And that's because unless you launched countermeasures in a specific 5 second window, the ship was going to get hit.

Iran has one of those missile types. And believe me. Those missiles could hit any ship in the Straight of Hormuz if they wanted to...

And that's not even getting into the whole idea of Iran mining the waters...

Edit: Iran would be pacified if we waged a land war... But just blockades and naval interdiction? Not happening...

edited 7th Dec '11 6:31:39 PM by Swish

I question the wisdom of using surface ships for such an operation anyway. Submarines seem like they would be better suited to it...

Surface ships police who comes and goes. Block ships headed for or out of Iran but allow all others safe, escorted passage. Submarines can't stay surfaced to do that.

^^ Silkworm missiles?

I was talking about the refinery strike proposal, actually.

They can be the launch platforms if we wanted to. (And maybe fire a few torpedoes at Iranian Revolutionary Guard ships in port to get the message across.)

Perhaps its time to get back on topic? The question is whether or not the West has already undertaken an undeclared secret war on Iran. There seems to be some evidence that the answer is "yes".