Would you date someone who has different religious beliefs?

We have discovered that you and I should not date Although I do see your point. If they explained their reasons to me, I would probably accept it and not push the matter.

The issue for me is more the mockery and disrespect than anything else.

Well, my mother constantly finds ways to interject that "Oh hey, if you REALLY accepted Jesus into your life-" and the like.

I don't make fun of her for it, though I'm happy to point out how her reasoning is wrong if she pushes the issue. Of course, she's a full on biblical literalist, who refuses to vote for Mitt Romney 'cause he's "not a Christian."

You know, for most of my life, I accepted the whole "as long as they respect and don't constantly challenge your beliefs" as the proper open minded, compassionate and rational approach. But when I started seriously thinking about it in my late teens (also the time it started becoming relevant to my own dating life,) it struck me that there's something really fundamentally weird about this.

Imagine that you meet someone living in New York who believes that no place in the world outside New York exists, and anyone who tries to leave the state falls off of the world and dies and is transformed into a demon dedicated to perpetuating the illusion that a world outside of New York exists. And yet, they live a completely normal life aside from the fact that they personally refuse to leave New York. You would probably not think "well, they're entitled to their beliefs, and it's not my place to judge," you'd think that they're crazy, and they should probably be on antipsychotics, and on the off chance that they're not suffering some brain disorder, that it would be better if they were disabused of their bizarre beliefs. It might not be in your interests to try and change their mind, and they might have plenty of positive qualities and be a great person in other respects, but that doesn't mean that you would respect or feel comfortable with their beliefs.

That should give some context for how I feel about religious beliefs. Not that I think people who're religious are suffering from sort of brain disorder, far from it, but when people hold beliefs about things that should logically be incredibly important, but treat them as being intensely personal and largely inconsequential, I think that, for all the completely understandable social and evolutionary reasons why things have turned out that way, people are engaging in some really nonsensical behavior.

Religious beliefs aren't like tastes in music or television, they're beliefs about fundamental facts of reality. I can tolerate other people's preferences if they don't care if the people they're in relationships with disagree with them about fundamental facts of reality, but I certainly care, and I think society as a whole would be a lot better off if people in general accepted that

• If we want to live in this world and arrange it according to our preferences, truth matters

• Truth is not something personal; something which is true about reality is true for everyone

• You cannot rely on reaching the truth by luck, it takes effort and the right methods

• How well a method for determining truth works is not a matter of opinion.

@Loni Jay

I can certainly sympathise with not wanting to date someone who would mock your beliefs. "Have fun talking to your imaginary friend" is certainly not acceptable between people who are supposed to respect each other. But what's wrong with simple "I think I'll pass, you go and have a good time"?

I just don't see much point in sitting in a church for someone who does not want it. Who would it benefit?

There's nothing wrong with that at all. Sorry if I gave the impression that I'm against dating outside my religion - I'm most definitely not.

But my experiences on this site and at school have shown me that some atheists/nonreligious don't seem to be capable of (or see the need for, perhaps) restraining their patronising attitude for religion. Not all of them, and I have a great many friends who've treated me and my faith with nothing but respect. One of those would be just fine to date.

Well, in my case, my father's a Christian and my mother's an atheist and they manage to make it work, so I don't see why not, provided that they weren't a total prick.

Re: Desertopa: At some point, criticizing the obvious falsehoods about religion is just banging one's head against a brick wall, so scientifically speaking (as in, we've observed a lack of effect from the cause of trying to reach the truth), it's naive to continue after a certain coourse.

I certainly think that truth has inherent value even outside it's applicability in arriving at other desired outcomes, but I think that there are marginal returns on this sort of thing, and there are extreme costs involved. It's fundamentally an inefficient usage of mental energy after a certain point.

Like I said, it's not necessarily in your best interests to try and change someone's mind even if you really think that they're wrong. And if it simply doesn't work, it's not in their interests either. But living with the disagreement is a very different thing from respecting the other person's beliefs.

A serious Feminist will generally prefer not to be in a relationship with someone about whom they will say "I just can't talk to this person about gender issues." That's how I feel about rationality and truth issues. I'd rather be in a relationship with someone who takes their religion seriously and is prepared to be reasoned out of it than with an person who thinks that a god probably exists, but doesn't care much or think it's very important, and would rather not discuss religious matters at all.

I can understand that. I have to live with my mother (financial reasons, though I have to wonder if she'd really be okay alone anymore anyway), and I find I just can't talk to her about anything because I know it'll start an argument-an argument she can't finish.

Again-I certainly wouldn't date anyone like that.

I don't think that every opinion should be respected. The person should be respected, though.

By the way, I wonder if you, in turn, are prepared to be reasoned "into" religion?

edited 27th Dec '11 12:32:53 AM by Beholderess

Reasoned?

edited 27th Dec '11 12:34:52 AM by kay4today

You had me until that last part. Surely merely believing in the presence of a deity isn't inconsistent with arriving at values independently of religion?

I suppose I should feel insulted by the highlighted notion, being what essentially amounts to apathetic towards religion in a personal sense. But it doesn't seem worth the fuss, worrying if people approve of my (sparse) beliefs...

@kay4today

Why not? Quite a lot of religious people do not see their beliefs as opposed to reason in any way. Sometimes they offer a good argument. I am not qualified to judge if they are right or not, only that so far, these arguments were not enough for me personally. But that proves nothing.

Proves nothing, exactly.

I haven't heard any of these "good arguments" yet. Well... they weren't good from my point of view.

edited 27th Dec '11 1:43:53 AM by kay4today

They Call Me Tomu

Re: Desertopa: At some point, criticizing the obvious falsehoods about religion is just banging one's head against a brick wall, so scientifically speaking (as in, we've observed a lack of effect from the cause of trying to reach the truth), it's naive to continue after a certain coourse.

And, by proxy, in response to Desertopa:

Guys, don't make the assumption that someone who doesn't share your beliefs is incapable of rational arguments as to why. Nor should you assume that their beliefs are full of "obvious falsehoods." Whether or not their arguments are personally convincing to you, there is a reason Wikipedia defines theology as "the systematic and rational study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truths."

Or as theologian Bernard Ramm put it, "These are extremely serious matters and there is no legitimate place for small minds, petty souls, and studied ignorance." Do not make the mistake of believing that your side is the only one capable of rational thought.

Anyway—yeah, I would, within reason. I'm a huge proponent of religious tolerance, so I do not get along well with people who sneer at beliefs different than their own. A scenario like the one Loni Jay gave, well—I probably wouldn't have gotten far enough with someone like that to be in a relationship, because such an attitude would have set me off PDQ.

I don't see one single rational reason to believe in it.

Why do you believe? Please give me some rational arguments.

edited 27th Dec '11 9:18:26 AM by kay4today

I will reiterate, my principle experiences are in discussions with my mother, who I can say with 90+% certainty is not a reasonable person.

I'm not generalizing to theists as a whole or anything, I'm merely explaining my own personal relationships, and suggesting a course of action for similar relationships.

What I believe has nothing to do with what I said in my post, and my reasons for my beliefs have nothing to do with the topic at large.

There's a difference between having your own reasons for your beliefs, and thinking that nobody else could possibly have a rational reason for theirs. The mindset that "only people who agree with me are rational" is another form of Holier Than Thou.

I getcha, and I do agree that there's going to be people out there who are going to be unreasonable. Still, it's something to keep in mind, you know? Not to let oneself start thinking that nobody of other religions or belief systems could have a rational basis.

Yeah, like I said.

edited 27th Dec '11 11:45:14 AM by TrevMUN

You can have religious beliefs in general and still be reasonable.

However, there are certain specific beliefs that are demonstrably false. Holding said views automatically discredits one's self.

It's funny—I agree with Desertopa's statement that religion should influence people's behavior and morals, but I believe that atheists benefit from promulgating the meme that religion should not influence people's behavior and morals. As an atheist, I will happily support that meme—better to be a hypocrite than to have to deal with yet another Soulsaving Crusader. (And I'd much more readily date a believer in that meme than date said crusader.)

edited 27th Dec '11 3:12:47 PM by feotakahari

I'm a follower of an atheistic religion-the pursuit of Truth as an inherent value. To that end, I can't endorse hypocrisy simply because the end results are superior.

Oh look, people doing exactly what the OP said not to do! How quaint!

-Ahem-

On topic, I have, and likely will again. Any prospective partner must respect my beliefs- and should express their beliefs in a way worthy of respect, meaning, no blatant hypocrisy and no vile activity*

Oh, and not taking the "suffer not a witch to live" thing seriously is also a big bonus in a Christian girl.

I'm a pagan, by the way. Or, rather, I'm a slew of different kinds of pagan that all even out for the most part.

As for the situation Loni brought up and others like it, I would see no reason not to go to a church or mosque or whatever happens to be on the plate for special occasions. I wouldn't be going every Sunday (or whatever day/s are relevant), but special events call for special actions. I would sincerely hope they might do the same on, say, Samhain.

edited 27th Dec '11 3:32:36 PM by Exelixi

^ It's not about whether I'm right, only about whether I believe I'm right. I act in accordance with my beliefs, and I reasonably expect others to act in accordance with their beliefs—but if I can get them to act like their beliefs are no big deal, it's a net win for me. (Similarly, if they could get me to act like my beliefs are no big deal, it would be a net win for them. Which result would be a net win for all of us depends on which of us is right, which is outside the scope of this thread.)

(For what it's worth, I can't justify my natural inclination towards truth, so I try to ignore it in favor of my inclination towards contentment and harmony.)

edited 27th Dec '11 3:27:29 PM by feotakahari

People doing what the OP said not to do is in style, Ex! You silly boy.

On topic. Already said I would. In fact I am. She's an agnostic apatheist. Panentheism, polytheism, and Theravada Buddhism on my end. I love how respectful she is of my thing. She likes to hear me talk about it as well and has interest in coming to wat services because they're important to me. Even though when we go I'll be taking the Eight and therefore can't be touched by her. She likes how I'm not constantly nagging her or guilt tripping her or on some holy crusade of doom. And how I won't force her to go with me to the wat. The only thing she gets no word in is my Eight precept taking. She has agreed to this though she pouts playfully about it...