The Commonwealth

The last list on that first page you linked to interested me. I'm really surprised at some of the countries who have made enquiries/expressed interest in joining. They must view it as at least somewhat relevent, if they're considering trying to join despite their lack of ties.

edited 29th Oct '11 8:31:47 AM by ArlaGrey

Bleh... attempting to join the Commonwealth would be a PR suicidal nightmare in the US for the politicians trying to do it.

Yeah, I don't want to sound mean or anti-American, but I doubt it would go down too well here if the US tried to join. People view America, the EU and the Commonwealth as three seperate options for the UK's future, if America joined the Commonwealth people would probably see it as America trying to take over one of our other options. And, to be honest, we still tend to see the Commonwealth as 'ours'. As in; not Europe's, not America's.

edited 29th Oct '11 9:09:54 AM by ArlaGrey

@ USAF: I can imagine that*

@ Arla: That's true. It is something that (even though they could, but never would) is something that the Americans cannot get involved in, something that is "ours" (that is not European, but British), not like almost everything else, that has the Americans somewhere involved...

Unsurprising. If we joined the Commonwealth, I'd probably advocate leaving the leadership of it all to Britain, though. We've thoroughly proven, recently, that we're not good at being club leader.

Eh, I don't know about that. The liberals wouldn't much care, but the Midwest (where I live... ) would blow up like a box of TNT.

British people might be in a surprise if they really choose the Commonwealth over the EU. Somehow I believe India will demand more influence than they have now and the UK might very well end up as the Luxembourg of the Commonwealth.

I don't think anyone seriously believes that the Commonwealth will become anything more than it is now, but it's nice to have it as a potential third option. As far as I know, the EU doesn't really have an issue with the Commonwealth, so I don't think it would come down to that choice.

edited 29th Oct '11 11:53:25 AM by ArlaGrey

I should think that the best course of action would be to strengthen both the EU and Commonwealth ties, and make a big old trade network... thing.

You're right in that I don't think we could get away with strengthening ties with the Commonwealth without doing the same with the EU. The reason I don't think it's likely the EU has much of a problem is because no-one actually believes Britain is going to try to turn the Commonwealth into something we could rely on instead of America and the EU. If we started strengthening the Commonwealth without also getting more involved in the EU they'd probably start suspecting we were up to something (which under those circumstances we probably would be).

The best option is definitely to keep ties with both. It's just nice to have a potential option if something went seriously wrong with the US and the EU.

edited 29th Oct '11 12:34:56 PM by ArlaGrey

I loled at Japan being on that list of countries that have inquired about it. I mean, what possible purpose would that serve for them?

However, the Palestinians wishing for it makes sense because if they ever do get their statehood they're going to need some sort of network to receive help through.

I think the US asking to join the Commonwealth would mean that something's gone seriously wrong with the US, and in such a case we might not actually be in a position to take over anything.

Japan was the one which threw me, too. They'd probably be a pretty good gain for the Commonwealth, though, if they actually applied and got in. A developed country that feels it can benefit from joining your organisation makes the organisation seem like it is at least somewhat relevent. Not that I'm knocking the underdeveloped countries that have inquired; it's quite flattering that they're looking towards the Commonwealth.

edited 29th Oct '11 1:43:25 PM by ArlaGrey

Well, maybe if they joined Japan would relax its ridiculously difficult immigration laws. As it is, it's hard to do so. And there's some fears they're going to face a situation where there's far more old people than young people at some point. With not a lot of new people coming in and staying, there's not much they can do to even that out.

It's just a guess, though. I'm not sure what the rate of permanent foreign residents is.

French hate the Brits so they hate any nation that is friendly to Brits.

British foreign Office hate the Brits, so they ally with the French.

Um... are you trying to respond to what I said earlier about not thinking the EU would be that bothered about the Commonwealth as it is? Because that's fine, I just can't tell what you're saying.

I'm not going to lie, a legitimately solid alliance between a firmer EU and a stronger Commonwealth would be sort of... scary...

The Commonwealth is cute. I'd be a sad bunny if it got disbanded.

The Commonwealth or the Ibero-Americans getting their shit together would mean interesting times, that's for sure.

edited 29th Oct '11 2:38:54 PM by SavageHeathen

See, I don't think British people would want the EU getting involved with the Commonwealth anymore than they'd want America to. But if the other Commonwealth countries wanted to then maybe that could happen (I realised that I'd not really mentioned the other Commonwealth countries much, so I thought I'd better clarify that I don't think of it as Britain's toy to do whatever we like with).

edited 29th Oct '11 2:39:53 PM by ArlaGrey

I sort of imagine it as two big organizations using Britain as the lynch-pin go-around to basically set up a huge free-trade zone.

If it worked like that, I'd imagine that Britain would become stupidly rich...

Bah the idiots failed to make a Human Rights charter for the commonwealth.

That is stupid.

I think if they wanted to make the Commonwealth more relevant it needs three things to go on:

• Economic union
• Political sameness (everyone shifting together on human rights agreements and civil right agreements)

Then in the future:

• Immigration barrier reduction
• Labour rights improvement (thus making immigration problems lessen)
• Unifying recognition of education (recognising degrees between countries) by setting a "minimum" standard

Well, we don't have looser immigration laws between commonwealth countries, it is easier to get work and study visas though.

But yes, a little economic unity would be nice. As a Canadian I really feel we need to be looking for some new economic alliances. And trade. As heartwarming as I find the levels of trust between Canada and the States (though those are...deteriorating), having +50% of your trade be with one country is not viable, in the long term. The commonwealth would be a good avenue to explore, if it wasn't just a figurehead.

Still, without any of those things you've listed, I am bemused as to why people would want to join. We're actually considering not renewing our membership, last time I recalled, and no one under 50 cares.

edited 31st Oct '11 10:18:30 PM by AwayLaughing

Wow, fifty? That's... putting an awful lot of eggs in a creaky, beat up basket right now.

And you have to renew your membership?

Yeah, right now the Commonwealth isn't anything to most people - although I still say it must have something going for it if countries are wanting to join, even if I don't fully understand what that is.

But if countries wanted to make stronger economic ties it would be a bit silly to not even consider the big group of nations just waiting for someone to do something with it.

Well UK is the one that has to make the push for it in the Commonwealth. If they're not going to put any political will behind making the Commonwealth relevant, the colonies certainly don't care. Some of us are doing much better than UK :)