Voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement

Anywhere that will hire me.

I even tried to get a volunteer (non-paid) job at the library, and even they wouldn't accept me.

Want a list? It's rather long.

The amount of money saved by these actions is absolutely miniscule in comparison to the budget. I'd guess less than 0.0001%. The timing of these closures right after the introduction of the ID laws is undeniably suspect.

Also, there have been documented cases of people making it as difficult as possible to obtain these ID's, going as far as asking for unnecessary information and otherwise not complying with the ID laws. Whether this is intentional or simply bad training, it needs to be investigated and stopped if these ID laws are to have any semblance of legality or reasonability.

Finally, much as with abortion clinics, having widely spread low hour DM Vs makes it extremely difficult for poor people to go. If their choice is between traveling 3 or 4 hours during on public transit during the week (remember, low hours) to get to a DMV and possibly losing their job in doing so (since they can only go during normal working hours), or not bothering, which do you think they will pick?

Of course you guys can go, you're privileged enough to have cars and probably even had your parents drive you to your tests. Hell, your parents probably bought your first car for you, you lucky bastards. Not everyone is in the same bucket.

Oh, and poor people tend to vote Democrat. And the laws were instituted by Republicans. Hence, the cries of voter disenfranchisement.

edited 28th Sep '11 5:12:16 PM by deathjavu

Thank you, Mr. Deathjavu.

This man knows things.

As a wisconsinite, I can also tell you that the thing about the I Ds is that A) the production of the I Ds was outsourced to california instead of producing them right at the DM Vs, like was done before.

B) workers were given strict instructions to not volunteer the fact that you can get a free ID if you ask for it. How else is that supposed to be interpreted?

But some people, like me, should not be allowed to vote. Not everybody makes reasonable, practical, or otherwise good decisions. Do I want my voice to be heard? No. I want to shut up and listen to other people, because I consider their opinions worth listening to, and I trust them to act on their opinions in a correct manner.

Aliroz: Then you sir, have the self confidence of a lump of clay.

If you want to blindly follow someone else, than just ask your smartest friend who they're voting for and then vote for that guy, sheesh.

Then quit making excuses and get shit done. Saving some lunch money and making the drip down to the DMV office isn't going to kill you. If voting is important to you, you'll get it done no matter what. You've got people in Iraq and Africa who told the thread of death to fuck off, and made their ways to the polls.

Don't complain about inconvenience.

I agree, anyone who can afford to post on the internet shouldn't complain, but that doesn't invalidate complaining on the behalf of people who truly have incredible difficulty obtaining an ID, of which there are undoubtedly many (see the post I outlined above).

Nor should the deliberate steps to obfuscate the availability and requirements for obtaining these ID's go unnoticed or be dismissed as "complaining." That's a pretty serious problem.

^^I fully intend to, you seem to be equating with me complaining about the inconvenience with me not voting at all because of it.

Quite the contrary, as I said before, if I have to get into the polls by knocking heads in with a cane, than I'm going to do it. I would just rather it not made deliberately and arbitrarily more difficult.

edited 28th Sep '11 5:25:07 PM by BlixtySlycat

Criminals worth jailing are worth rehabilitating, and therefore are not worth disenfranchising. I could accept it for repeat offenders, I suppose, but even still...

Criminals worth disenfranchising outright are also worth executing. Therefore, such a concept is next to useless.

IDs would be alright if they could be implemented well. I don't believe that they can, though...

Making ID mandatory isn't deliberately making something difficult. Due to driving, joining the military or other instances, the vast majority of people here have some form of id.

edited 28th Sep '11 5:35:22 PM by Kino

Making ID Mandatory on top of several other things (which have been discussed here, so I'll not repeat them) is, especially when the majority of people who don't have I Ds, or fall into one of the other categories just so happen to be voting blocs that traditionally sway Democrat.

It's not proof, but it is awfully suspicious.

@Kino: I'm sure that will work for everyone who cant save the money and or take a day off work to go register.

I've not seen the point in removing the right of a felon to vote. the point of an election is to see which candidate is most popular. The vote of a man who has a felony is trivial.

Fact is, the voter fraud is not caused by people voting twice. The personal voting fraud is caused by felons who want to vote, and the majority of fraud, the kind that affects elections, is done by people in power, with access to the ballots(See Kathy Nikolaus) or people who have access to the voting machines.

You've got all year to register to vote.

Gotta love how the DMV is only open Monday-Friday, 9 AM to 4:30 PM, right during worktime, when anyone who's got a minimum wage job with 50 potential replacements will definitely be able to get some vacation time to go out to the DMV to get said ID.

Oh, wait. They'd get fired. Because one slip-up is cause for termination with a Reserve Army of the Unemployed this size.

Probably because it's too expensive to do another shift. That would be normal operating hours for any business, so...

Most minimum wage jobs tend to use shift work... which is 7am-3pm, 3pm-11pm, and 11pm-7am(or a variation using six hour shifts). Very few minimum wage jobs go from 9-5...

And, if there are any, I would be interested in finding what companies do have someone work from 9-5 at minimum wage...

I'm not saying that it's unwarranted that the DMV would only be open that time.

I am saying that it's not nearly so simple as 'go to DMV, get free ID'. In an ideal world, sure. But this isn't an ideal world.

Off the top of my head,

• any fast food establishment
• any retail store
• any grocer

Um... no.

Fast food places(24 hour) go from the hours I mentioned(or a variation usually starting at 6am). Those that are not 24 hour open ~6 am, and close anywhere between 12am and 2am. Work is 6-8 hour shifts, beginning at open. No one works from 9-5 unless they ask to work from that range...

Most retail stores do not tend to have their employees work 8 hour shifts unless they are open for at least 16 hours... Those that are open for at least 16 hours usually don't open at 9(and thus, employee shifts don't go from 9-5)...

Grocers are the same as retail. Unless it is a store that is open for at least 16 hours, they won't hire for an 8 hour shift(and will stick with 6 hours)...

In smaller towns, this may be different... but in smaller towns you'll be more likely to get the day off if you ask, rather than have your job threatened...

So, a bit of thread hopping here. Considering that lately most of the voter fraud claims is coming from a group of people that is trying to reverse how the votes count in two states in a way that will deliberately stack things in their favor pretty much convinces me that they're the ones trying to commit the fucking fraud. Seriously, big picture, the Republicans have gained back their political clout and will do what they can to preserve. Never mind that they're doing exactly what they say is happening to them.

Also, I read an article the other day that says the electronic voting machines can be hacked with ten dollars worth of materials, thus changing all the votes. And the electronic voting machines are supposed to be more secure. I realize it's only sort of related, but it seems fitting to mention.

Must be so, because I know 9-5ers (or same length shifts) in all those positions.

Also other stuff, but those are the only ones that work minimum wage.

Tangential to that, why is it that Republicans are pushing to make Nebraska's electoral college votes be winner-take-all and Pennsylvania's to be proportional or district-based?

If they were pushing for one or the other, sure, I could see a movement for both. But it seems like Republicans are using the fact they have control of more gubernatorial positions than at any time since Truman to influence Congressional and Presidential elections.

One of the other people in this thread said it best: "When you're in power, change the rules to keep yourself in power" (apologize if I misquoted you).

They want to change the electoral vote distribution rules in Nebraska and Pennsylvania because Nebraska as a whole is solidly Republican, but the second district has far more liberals than the other two (we gave our district's one electoral vote to Obama in '08), and Pennsylvania is a Democratic leaning swing state, so they figure that they can switch it from the Democrats getting all 20 of those delicious electoral votes to the Democrats only getting, say 12 or 13, and the Republicans getting 7 or 8 (the distribution is something of a guess on my part, admittedly).