Dumbing of Age

It's still rude to apply it to a person.

Source: I am from Indianapolis.

(IU is in Bloomington though)

This is the first time I've ever heard of "oriental" being offensive.

It just means "eastern", really. So a bunch of 19th century scholars who were studying Asia called themselves "orientalists". Then a 20th century polemicist said that those orientalists were Bad People (which is highly debatable, but at least arguable). So now a bunch of 21st century Americans have deduced that if "orientalist" is Bad, "oriental" must be too.

Which is probably news to a lot of people (including, say, the School of Oriental and African Studies, in London, which usually seems to have a somewhat left-of-centre rep). It's not something that's caught on much over this side of the pond, where we can't use "Asian" for Dina's ethnicity, because that's generally used for people of southern Asian origin.

So I'm holding out against American cultural imperialism here.

'Negro' also just means 'black'. It is true that certain words aren't slurs everywhere to everyone, but it is also important to remember they are in certain places, for certain people.

T Paradox said 'oriental' is a slur in Indianopolis, so I don't think there is much more to discuss. Ross deliberately used a slur, because he is an asshole.

I mean, it's more okay to call a thing of Asian origin "Oriental". Which may even extend to things that are not rugs.

So once again, america is fucking crazy.

America's racial issues are pretty nasty yeah, like you could make a serious argument that white supremacy is the guiding principle of most of our culture.

I think in most of the English speaking world I'd consider it a slur when applied to people.

A minor slur. There are worse ones.

I'd want evidence that it was considered a slur outside a relatively limited population of North American liberals.

I didn't like it when people used it to refer to me when I lived in the UK.

Anecdotal evidence, admittedly.

Doesn't quite prove it's a slur.

edited 11th Oct '15 11:45:53 AM by unnoun

I've called asian friends of mine "oriental"before, and they told me to cut that shit out, so I think I'll defer to their judgment.

Also here.

That link is a bit US-centric.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:13:08 PM by unnoun

Maybe it is a bit of an American thing. Even so Toedad is still using slurs to refer to Dina and that's pretty shitty of him.

I suppose it is. But this is a comic set in the US. So I think applying US values is probably appropriate.

I mean, I feel like the "don't call people a thing they don't call themselves" bit is pretty universal. I know hat's a lot of the reason "gypsy" is so offensive to roma people. Also, yknow, the whole "evil witches" connotation

Why is this even a topic of conversation? Why does it matter that in some nebulously-defined places that are, let's be honest, probably not Indiana, the word is not a slur?

That is the important thing. The story is set in the US so it is not imperialism to judge it by US values.

I would assume that from someone like Toedad, it's effectively a slur, because he's someone like Toedad, not because someone else (who the Toedads of this world would regard with disdain) says it's bad.

Put it this way; I have no objection to being called British, or for that matter a Westerner — because that's what I am. However, I'm sure that, from some people, those words would be very clearly insults. But that just means that those people are jerks, not that those words are bad.

Which is why it's hopeless trying to find perfectly inoffensive terms for any ethnic group. Pick any word you like for the purpose, and ten minutes later, the bigots will be spitting it as an insult.

(By the way, three minutes on Google confirms that the "oriental" thing is a well-known American/British difference. Heck, the Urban Dictionary covers it.)

edited 11th Oct '15 4:04:48 PM by Spindriver

Again: I have been told by my asian friends very clearly not to call them oriental.

It's not just that hateful people use the word, it's that the people the word applies to 1. Don't use it to refer to themselves. And 2. Don't want other people using it to refer to them. You could be the nicest, most kind-hearted sould on earth, but if you're referring to asian americans at the very least, the word is a slur.

I still want to know what establishing "oriental" isn't universally a slur accomplishes.

Man is the second most dangerous game.

No, I think listening to people that Toedads regard with disdain is probably a mostly sound move intellectually.

There are plenty of words that are bad because of their history.

Or you could, y'know, ask?

I mean, I did a google search and saw a lot of British people saying it wasn't acceptable. And some British people that disagreed.

Typically, within any culture there tends to be a wide variety of viewpoints about a wide variety of things.

And, from my own personal experience of living in the UK, and growing up in the UK, I didn't exactly like it.

I'm pretty sure the UK still uses it on certain government forms, but the UK government also has a necrophiliac pig fucker in charge right now, so I'm not sure the UK's government is the best metric on what is and isn't acceptable in polite society.

edited 11th Oct '15 6:09:48 PM by unnoun

.....dear God, he's gonna kill off Dina.

Okay, no lie, despite the seriousness of the strip it made me chuckle.

Same. I'm a sucker for that joke.

Also anyone else pretty worried that Toedad points the gun at where he thinks Becky is?

At least his finger isn't on the trigger? So, you know, he knows to maintain his trigger discipline while literally hunting down his daughter!

As someone in the comments there said already, I'm not sure if Toedad actually knowing how to handle a gun makes this better or worse.

edited 11th Oct '15 9:42:24 PM by CapedLuigisYoshi