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Actually, I'm not fond of religion in general, but organized religion in particular is especially prone to being corrupted. Just look at how long priests got away with molesting kids when everyone expected priests to be virtuous. (Granted, nowadays they are practically acceptable targets, but my point remains.)
edited 4th Sep '11 10:27:45 AM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
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Then bashing organized religion is implying that religion is innately bad, and organizing it makes it better at being bad, like organized crime.
It would be more forthright of you to say "religion is bad."
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
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Well, I didn't want to come off as absolutely dismissive of everything religious, especially since the line between religious ideas and other cultural ideas is often blurry. At the very least, it probably depends on what particular religion is being referred to.
But yeah, I do consider religion to be, generally speaking, bad.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
If you don't like the name relgion how about just calling it faith.Actually that's what a lot of Christians are doing calling what they believe in faith.Christianity has now become faith instead of just religion.
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Come to think of it, that is better wording anyway, since it refers specifically to believing in things not based on evidence. Plenty of "religion" is really more so cultural, rather than making any claims about things like deities or the like.
Moar and Moar and Moar
See I'm the opposite. I see organized religion not to be the problem in and of itself, but it acts as a sort of multiplier for the actual details and nature of the faith. Religion that's focused on brotherhood and community building? Yay! Religion that's focused on social ordering and "glory"? Boo!
Making it big just magnifies the effects, whatever they may be.
Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
Thread Hop: I wouldn't say so. Maybe in the global north. But, for example, Christianity in forms that would be disliked by most people on this forum is alive and well, and growing.
And what if it is both at the same time?
edited 4th Sep '11 11:33:32 AM by Cojuanco
edited 4th Sep '11 11:53:57 AM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Moar and Moar and Moar
True, but I really disagree with that. I think that it's a sort of..double-edged sword of community that often results in feelings of discomfort, and breeds radicalism.
Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
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Not if the "other" is regarded as "not necessarily better, just different."
It should be, but it's not that happens. The very definition of "us" is as opposed to "them".
This one is not saying that it is right, by the way.
edited 4th Sep '11 12:13:41 PM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Writer of horse words
Fixed.
... Actually Rott's probably going to disagree with me, which is fine. I just think it's important to call out that the original sentence is a bit of an over simplification.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
I changed accounts.
Organized religion isn't the problem, it's scaling. It works beautifully on the small-scale, but, as in all things, the larger it gets, the more corrupt it becomes, due simply to human nature...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
On small scale its not exactly the bringer of wonders either. Its ridiculously easy to make a small community united by xenophobic hatred justified by faith.
I don't personally know what is better. Corruption or extremism.
A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
I changed accounts.
Neither. To my knowledge, the original small Christian communities were really nice to live. Conversely, the Puritan colonies in what would become the US were horrific (see: the Salem Witch Trials). It's not a blanket rule, but it's more accurate than not...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Writer of horse words
On a related note, if the report is anything to go by the smaller communities are currently the ones that are much more anti-homosexual than the larger ones (in America at least).
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
I changed accounts.
That's because today the small communities are usually made up of the weirdos who think that the "liberal byline of the Church" is a corruption of the original text, when it's probably closer than whatever nonsense they're preaching...
I am now known as Flyboy.
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As opposed to what other kinds of evidence?
Writer of horse words
Witness accounts, collaboration of multiple-sources, historical and archeological at least verifying some accuracies from scriptural source materials (which, actually would be empirical), basically anything that could give one reason to believe via principle of sufficient reason
.
Saying there is “no evidence” for faith is quite the over simplification.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
I changed accounts.
We can say with some degree of certainty that Jesus existed as a historical figure in the appropriate era. We cannot say with any real degree of certainty that he turned water into wine, brought people back to life, multiplied fish and bread on a whim, or all the other strange and interesting things he supposedly did. We can say that, as a literary figure in the Bible (and possibly as a historical figure, although that's hazier) he had pretty damn good ideas, however...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Course he did all that stuff the Bible said he did 
Come across that line of reasoning far too often.
Writer of horse words
Jesus as a historical figure has been verified historically yes (at least, well enough for most historians).
Jesus as a miracle maker doesn’t have the same evidence, though still seemingly has multiple sources collaborating various events. Claims over Jesus actually performing miracles tend to involve archeological research of various sources, date comparisons, charts, questions of the credibility of witnesses or source materials, etc… etc... Hence the issue is a little more complex than dismissing it because it’s “not the sort of evidence we like to see around here.”
That’s not to say that we should just accept truth claims from holy scripture without verification of sources, date comparisons, etc, etc… Just that saying there is “no evidence” would need hella qualifiers to be an accurate statement.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
I changed accounts.
~shrug~
Rarely do religious people come up with rational arguments past "I believe in God and God says this is true so it's true," with an unhealthy dose of "and science is wrong because scientists are unbelieving heathens and they're stupid and I don't agree with them" behind it...
Edit: correction - they rarely do so in my presence.
edited 5th Sep '11 11:54:07 AM by USAF713
I am now known as Flyboy.
Writer of horse words
I think it’s true of a lot of people to some extent. Possible in that they’ve never heard of a “circular argument” or too readily gobble up whatever they’re told by a “trusted source”.
But yes, the “argument from scripture” comes up quite a bit and few take the time or effort to explain why scripture has the final word.
And even then, as this thread has shown, there’s some pretty dubious reasoning going on from using verses itself…
I could go on…but shouldn’t.
Religious people’s views of homosexuality shifting contributing to serious changes within religious groups, anyone?
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Thank you, Beholderess.
Matt, I'd say any good thing is better when organized. If religion is good, disorganized religion doesn't fulfill its telos.
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard