Move to Shōjo Demographic: Shojo Genre

I understand your point: "shoujo" is the correct spelling if you follow proper and consistent Japanese to English conversion. I just don't think consistent and proper spelling is as important as you do.

I understand "Shoujo" is the correct spelling, but so is "Shōjo", and I think that's actually a more helpful representation for people who don't know anything about the Japanese language.

Also, even with that clip and four years of Japanese classes, I still cannot hear the difference between "o" and "ou" in Japanese.

Maybe we should start a different thread somewhere and just decided on a wiki-wide system? So far we seem to have:

1) Hepburn system (with the untypable letters)

2) Danbooru system (modified Hepburn that eliminates letters that you can't actually type without a reference guide.

3) Whatever the most popular spelling seems to be for any given word at the the time it's being written, actual rules be damned.

4) Raven's concept that spelling doesn't matter at all, which means that whoever makes the trope gets to use whatever spelling (s)he wants.

Am I missing anything?

edited 5th Sep '11 12:40:33 AM by LordGriffin

I didn't say spelling doesn't matter, just that the best spelling and the spelling the most closely follows the rules aren't necessarily the same thing. I usually try to spell words correctly, but that's because most people know how the word's supposed to be spelled and will have a negative reaction if they see it spelled differently. When romanizing a word from a different alphabet, however, most people are not gonna know how it's supposed to be spelled, so other concerns like pronouncibility and aesthetics get their relative importance raised.

Perhaps I should have said, "Raven's notion that spelling shouldn't matter"? I'm not trying to insult you, but that seems to be the meaning behind what you said, here: "But I don't mind 'than' and 'then' being used interchangeably."

Either way, the point of item #4 is to reflect what I think your views are. If you feel that you can explain your views better than *I* can explain your views (and I hope you can), then please suggest how you think that linguistics of this nature should be handled, wiki-wide.

Also, I obviously phrased my list to indicate a strong bias towards item #2. If anybody wants to revise the list to be less biased, then please do

In any event, I do think it's a good idea to have wiki-wide translation conventions.

Actually, I agree with using those little phonetic symbols for the page titles. However, since there seemed to be backlash against doing so, I offered my preferred alternative.

I prefer the macron, since that's the standard I'm used to. However, I have no objection to the "ou" spelling.

The macron confuses me, to be honest. I thought that we were trying to translate a language that we cannot read into a language that we can. What's the point if we use a character that's not in our language? Especially when it can accurately be depicted otherwise. Then there's stuff like Pokémon, which gets a free pass because it's a proper name, and I believe that it's spelling was chosen by it's creators (or those with official authority in the matter).

So, is there a good reason to give Shōjo a pass on this? Can we please stick translations that actually translate to English, please. Otherwise, we might as well start using ALL the special characters that a dictionary gets away with. Wheee! That sounds fun.

Well, anyway. We seem to be in consensus. We should rename this trope to be in line with it's shonen counterpart as a "demographic". I think we have also agreed to use the shoujo spelling.

I move that we stop debating and just do this thing? yays? Nays? Does anybody object to "ou" spelling enough to raise further arguments?

...I'm for calling it and the other ones like it a demographic, and prefer a spelling that doesn't require Japanese keyboard input...

Or an esoteric knowledge of Unicode?

^^ & ^: A custom title that would negate the need for either of those things.

True dat. Ok, custom title for the win, I'm all for moving it to demographic...

Yeah, I don't think there's any actual disagreement over the Genre vs. Demographic thing.

Just keep it "Shoujo" it doesn't need demographic or genre on it.

edited 5th Sep '11 6:18:07 PM by Raso

Well, yeah, but Word Of Eddie says it needs the second word.

After what happened to Kuudere I don't think it matters anymore... Slippery slope to segregation.

Sniff, that will be tragic. Shoujo won't be able to drink at the same water fountain as Young Adult.

Well, until Eddie forces us to call it Young Girls'Stories, let's just wrap this up with by calling it Shōjo Demographic and call it good.

Since shoujo is very definitely not a genre, I'm strongly in favor of the move to Shōjo Demographic.

edited 16th Sep '11 3:01:10 PM by lebrel

(Thread Hop, more or less...) Can we have a crowner? I'd like this moved to Shoujo Demographic or something...

Also, without the word "demographic", it's just the Japanese word for girl, isn't it? So yeah, "demographic", please.

edited 22nd Sep '11 4:14:33 AM by ThatHuman

We already had a crowner.

The decision was to move Shounen and Shoujo to Shōnen Demographic and Shojo Demographic

This thread was supposed to carry that out for Shoujo, but then it got derailed by arguments over Shojo vs Shoujo.

edited 22nd Sep '11 5:40:56 AM by Sackett

Then the question is, do we want a custom title? If so, let's use the macron (Shōjo Demographic) for the main title, as it's the most accepted "correct" spelling. If not, then Shōjo Demographic. Shojo, despite being common, is unambiguously wrong as a spelling and can be a redirect for the convenience of the confused.

I don't really care about the macron, just that I want the "demographic" to be in the title.

May I point out that one of the custom titles using a Macron in "Bishōnen" is screwed up. If we go with "Shoujo", we can avoid that issue.