Sue or not? I want to put an end to this.

That description sounds very Sue-ish...

...But if it doesn't bother anyone, it's moot. A tree falls in the forest and all that.

A sue really only happens when you break the readers Suspention of Belief. This is why what a "sue" actually is, is so hard to pin down. What one person sees as okay, another is going to call foul on.

Take the Dresden Files as an example. Harry Dresden could be considered rather sue-ish in that he always wins the fights, even when by all rights he should be crushed like a bug, and luck always seems to favor him, even as he snubs authority, threatens and maims people and property, and at times can be a general ass to everyone around him.

Chances are, someone, somewhere, will call your character a Sue because something just doesn't jive with them.

Nowadays, I'm very critical with almost every aspect of my work, but now I understand that I overlooked several poor decisions I made when creating Mark long ago, such as the gratuitously cool ones. Some aspects are difficult to change, though, because I became too attached to most beginning characteristics of most characters.

If you like the characteristics, go back and create a reason within the story for them to exist. Then they aren't gratuitous anymore. Correct those mistakes you made. You don't have to erase them, if you can change them so that they aren't mistakes anymore.

edited 26th Aug '11 8:59:35 AM by Madrugada

99.9% of the time, Sue-tests are useless. Because your readers have no particular problems with the character as he stands now, you're fine.

I did zero in on the katana when going down the list.

It's an accessory, mostly unrelated to the actual character and characterization, I should think. My personal thought is, what is the level of technology in this story? If modern, then the Katana is honestly pretty sue. It's not a deal-breaker or anything, but if you want to absolutely eliminate sue-ness then I say ditch it for no weapon, or a modern-weapon like a gun. Did he even get training in some kind of fencing? If you do keep it you are going to have to explain that somehow. My general thoughts are if you have to try and justify something, just don't put it in. First you should think "My character has a problem to overcome", then you think "What's the best way within his power and characterization to fix that problem?". If the answer really is to use a Katana, then okay. If it's not then I say don't try to shove it in based solely on coolness.

On the whole though I don't think your character is sue-ish. It helps that he's not the main protagonist, you can get away with quite a bit more there. The main protagonist is who most people identify with and who assume is the "Author Avatar", so I don't think anyone is going to accuse you of using this guy as one. Especially if he's an acknowledged jerk in-story.

And like everyone said. Sue-tests can be helpful sometimes, but don't take it too much to heart, especially if you've had people read it and not find him sue-ish. I think you mostly know what you're doing, based on the things you've said, so I wouldn't be too worried about your judgement in the future. Just make sure you are thinking through your plot and characters logically and thoroughly and you'll be okay.

Regarding the katana - I agree with the earlier poster who said that the best (in my opinion only) way to fit it in there is to have in-universe Rule of Cool as the justification. Really, given that it's motivated more things in real life then you might think, having characters use "it's cool" as a reason for some things is a surprisingly convincing justification. It works particularly well with the idea of him having a self-deprecating attitude towards it - "yeah, this is stupid, but gimme a break, I was 23."

If you don't do something like that, though, or come up with another reason to have it besides Katanas Are Just Better alone, I personally would agree with this guy - I wouldn't use the term "Sue-ish", but it would irritate me.

Also, words really cannot describe how horrendously awful most Mary Sue litmus tests are. Genre Savvy Sue authors just avoid the superficial signs while missing the point on what really makes a Mary Sue, while other authors freak out over their character, say, having unusual eyes, while not caring about the real reasons why the character is a good or bad one.

edited 27th Aug '11 2:13:26 AM by nrjxll

Thanks, everyone.

Im actually a little surprised that the worst thing about the character is that katana. It's really not "necessary", but I never really thought about the implications. It felt very minor, but now I see how silly it is.

edited 27th Aug '11 8:43:41 AM by Teraus

I think the katana is the only thing that needs to go, but otherwise if the fans like him then you're fine.

Also, it's perfectly possible to have a character who does not have rainbow eyes, purple hair, magical powers, and a half-demon half-angel heritage and STILL have it be a Sue.

Maybe katana is a little overboard, but having a nice sword might not be too bad. You said he can create extradimensional portals? Just have him put one in the cockpit of whatever space ship/mecha/tank/whatever he's fighting, zip through and stab everyone. It makes sense, because not only do you take an an enemy vehicle out of commission, you didn't blow it up or anything so you can still use it for yourself.

Actually the thing that caught my attention was the other characters' attitudes towards him; it's very Sue for everyone's attitude towards the character to be either admiration/obsession or hatred because of everyone else's admiration/obsession.

But if it isn't bothering the readers, that probably means you've written it in a realistic, nuanced enough way that they don't feel like Sue relationships in practice.

I don't know, I find characters who use "It's cool" as a justification for something, unless we are obviously not supposed to take anything they do seriously, to be really annoying.

But I am a sue-Nazi. Also a logic-Nazi. Most people aren't as critical of this stuff as me.

Also, *is a girl*.

edited 27th Aug '11 7:35:20 PM by NoirGrimoir

Nope, I said he can't.

Iris (the female friend) dislikes him (maybe hate was an exaggeration) mostly because he is manipulating everyone and omitting important information. Adam's adoration annoys her further, but is not the main reason. She doesn't really hate him because, as a matter of fact, Mark is also protecting everyone (though it becomes harder for him later on, and people start getting hurt. In the end, though, he succeeds in keeping everyone from dying, though this is only true for the first book.). She starts to like him again in the second book.

edited 27th Aug '11 10:16:57 PM by Teraus