Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

In a political point of view, right-wing means less state influence (which I don't think was the idea of Hitler or Mussolini, the "zi" in "nazi" even stands for "socialism"), so violence would be about the only tool the far-right could use to reach dictatorship. Left-wingers have it easy when they can slowly eat away until the state is large enough so the populace can't do anything about it.

You're correct. Although getting pissed off is at least a good sign.

edited 30th Mar '17 7:20:38 PM by NEO

Nope, left and right generally have more to do with social aspects. What you're describing is the sliding scale of authoritarianism-libertarianism, and the people you're thinking of are closer to Y'All Qaeda and Timothy Mcveigh. Hitler and his ilk were proper right-authoritarians, Maduro is a left-authoritarian, and there are also extreme left-libertarians (radical anarchists).

The "socialist" in "Nazi" is merely nominal or meant in a different context than Marxist socialism, and while the Nazis engaged in some nationalization they also engaged in just as much or more privatization that runs contrary to the tenets of Marxist socialism. And with the exception of the US far right (who are hypocrites anyway, look at all their attempts to expand government whenever it comes to stifling civil liberties) far right wingers tend to love the idea of big government as a means of coddling "their" kind in social services while having the power to force "undesirables" out.

edited 30th Mar '17 8:39:29 PM by AlleyOop

He said in a political way, but yeah your version is more accurate, although to be honest I'm starting to see the whole Right-Left divide all the more abstract this days...

It's all very abstract, in the end the more depth you add the better an understanding you will have. Line theory is beaten by horseshoe theory, horseshoe theory is outdone by the political compass, the political compas can itself be outdone with an ideology cube.

Okay I made the last one up, but it still works as a concept even if I did make it up.

The main issue with "Horseshoe" theory is that it implicitly makes it seem like Centrism is inherently better than Left or Right. Centrists are just as capable of fucking up, if not in the same ways as hardcore Leftists or Rightists.

I think the good point about it was that It's better to have a government which the citizens can somewhat control and keep in check than having a big government which no one can control.

Both Russia and Germany were both powerhouses back in the days of Hitler and Stalin, but if that justifies giving that much power to the government is up to each person.

So, let me get this straight. When I wasn't looking, Venezuela essentially became a one party, presidential dictatorship via a judicial coup?

I'd hold out hope that the rest of the world could put some sort of effective pressure on them but...

Stay strong guys.

The non-PSUV parties haven't been outlawed just yet, but yeah.

I wish there was something those of us in other countries could do but none of our governments are willing to touch this with a ten foot pole and I don't know what we can do as individual private citizens besides signal boosting, since international media doesn't give it much heed.

Trust me, hearing you guys outside care helps, it helps a lot.

edited 31st Mar '17 3:52:05 PM by Swablu335

Eh. Maduro can't hold on forever, if the oil continues at this rate. What's gunna happen when he can no longer afford paying his military buddies.

Probably a coup attempt and the loyalists fighting the rebel groups in order to see who controls what is left of the country.

Typical South America.

The militars are overall well paid, they are some of the most privileged people in the country, so it's unlikely they'll start rebeling anytime soon unless things go bad enough even they stop being paid, and the common citizen is too unused to fight and, frankly, too spineless and apathetic.

I might be wrong, of course, but the way I see it we have grown too used to slowly sinking down into our own filth.

Well here is the thing: Maduro was actually clever (probably incidentally, not on purpose) in giving the Venezuelan military all those companies, the TV station, the control of the foodstuffs, the automobile manufactory etc...

Because a) It works as an incentive (AKA Corruption) to get this influential military person's support: Maduro lets them profit off that company, he gets their support

b) This person is greedy and dumb, accepting the bribe is joining Maduro's sinking ship, and if he ever stops shoveling shit out of the boat, there are many other militaries looking for his spot

c) It immediately demonizes them to the inevitable revolt. Taking the bribe means there is no forgiveness for them when the revolution comes: They would be coco chanel or hugo armani in the internet era. They MUST keep the ship running cuz the prospect is facing a completely pissed off people.

So those benefitting right now if things ever get violent, they have but one option: Flee the country and never return. The military who threw their lot in with Maduro have no other option but to desperately try to cling to his promises. When Maduro's money starts to fail though...they will start seeing another option: Becoming the hero who overthrew Maduro.

Rotting the military is one of Castro's tecniques, back then when the FSLN lost in 1990 in Nicaragua Fidel did his best to keep the military intact and it really helped Daniel Ortega.

Unfortunatly either we all get out of this one or we all sink, the drug dealing and the corruption is too huge we can't get out of this one without the milicos help which is the reason why I'm skeptic about a "peaceful" solution.

edited 31st Mar '17 6:44:05 PM by Swablu335

Oh no. No. No peaceful resolution there. That line was crossed years ago.

It was crossed, burned, spat on, pissed on, its family killed before its eyes, danced upon their grave, cast a necromantic spell on, killed again, resurrected again, offered peace, betrayed, its wiki edited to make him look silly, hacked, doxxed, unflattering pictures revealed, and given an angry face reaction on facebook.

Oh yeah? you would be surprised how many Venezuelans here think I'm a radical for thinking rebellion is the only option we have left...

Hope springs eternal.

hope is the first step on the road of disapointment

Hope springs eternal. Human beings don't. How many Cubans have died waiting and waiting for the Castros' grip to be over, again?

Maduro is an incredibly clumsy politician, but he's just the figurehead. We all know Diosdado is the one actually pulling on the strings.

In any half-competent country Maduro would be a political laughingstock, and even Diosdado would be only Smug Snake level, but the opposition here is so incredibly inept they make the rulers look like the one eyed men in the land of the blind.

edited 31st Mar '17 6:52:17 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

It's just like Bane said, there can be no real despair without hope, Although in our case It's a severe case of just not giving two shits or being in denial about the situation.

Honestly, if not for my family I'd probably be seriously considering suicide, because I don't have any hopes for my future whatsoever, not anymore.

Cuba, however, does not have an economy absolutely dependent on oil, and they heavily invested in medicine and other communal oriented things. People who want more will want out, but staying there does not mean you are risking starvation or murder by desperate looters, like in Venezuela.

There is no comparison there.

Cuba is also a lot safer than Venezuela...