Cuba and the Embargo

Left-right is relative. You're kinda left, to you. To us, you're way on the end of crazy-land, right before we get into the "staring contests" and Soviet-style hijinks (AKA totalitarianism). Of course, neither one is exactly true, but...

I already said I know they aren't the same, I simply dislike both.

You are a welfare-state-person. Or your delusional. Perhaps both.

You underestimate the average American's ability to obtain and utilize firepower in the average life situation, my friend...

@Hopey: I was more thinking of the consequence of the Cuban economy suddenly being flooded by an influx of cheap American goods. Bye bye local economy if that gets too bad.

They'd probably need some protectionism.

But you defeat your own argument. There are probably cities in the US filled with citizens who possess more firepower combined than the Cuban military.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:43:59 PM by GameChainsaw

The Cuban government is delusional. They'll want a pipe dream-setup where they get to keep all our stuff out but send all their stuff here. It's not gonna work like that, though.

As for why Cuba should be scared of our economy specifically, it's because we are (or at least, we used to be... ) the capitalist masters of selling people bridges and their own mothers. Also, 90 miles.

In terms of guns? Probably. Americans don't (usually) have cruise missiles and whatnot, though...

edited 9th Aug '11 1:46:02 PM by USAF713

Leaders who get too stupid tend to get replaced. Violently, if necessary.

I'm a Capitalist Socialist! I agree with companies as long as they... look, its not time to discuss my compromising political viewpoints. I'm for welfare as long as it helps those out of poverty.

There is no way Cuba can do any damage to America. That's like me going down the road with a maths compass and trying to take out all them rioters. (Yes! Analogy referring to current events!)

And then someone worse takes over, and we can add another "failed revolution facilitated by stupid Americans" to our international street cred.

No thank you.

Right now? This is true. In a bad situation down the line? They could do anything and it could throw everything off. We also get nothing out of doing it, and gain at least a little bit out of keeping it the way it is. Thus, it stays how it is...

edited 9th Aug '11 1:48:32 PM by USAF713

Hey now, why would the next leader automatically be worse? You don't know that.

You'd bet on a revolution producing a better government?

Well, I'm never going to Vegas with you, then...

Heck, look at Tunisia.

Oh, it does happen, but the first rule of revolutions is that if it happens to your country, get the fuck out, because betting that it will end better is just fool-talk.

Those are bad odds to bet on, and not worth it for the US to bother.

I'm a small c capitalist. Corporations can be evil.

Corporations can go die. My parents have done more with their small business (worth < 1.5mil) for the community than any of the local corporations. Fuck that noise, they can eat shit and die... stupid Mega Corps and their unethical nonsense...

Dropping the embargo is likely to turn Cuba into a democracy in short order, so I would say that's a plus. You also gain a tiny market to sell some goods into. I don't see why you'd give up millions in trade dollars (which would likely mostly benefit Florida's economy) just over ideology. You seem to rationalise giving up a bunch of little things and then don't really have anything to state to what you're gaining from making an embargo.

Woah, buddy. Responsible corporations can be a powerful force for progress.

Democracy wouldn't start at all. Remember, they are still run by a dictator.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:01:30 PM by Erock

Why would trade with the US automatically turn Cuba democratic?

True, but for every Microsoft you get a BP.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:01:34 PM by GameChainsaw

Chainsaw@They could be like China and be free market but not democratic.

Bullshit. Cuba is poor as fuck and they'd tariff our stuff into the ground. They'd get way more out of it than us. Why would we do such a thing, then? That makes no sense at all.

But they'd get something out of it, and the US would gain a little out of it. And that would improve relations to the point where you'd likely stop having a resentful enemy sitting off your coast given a few decades.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:09:55 PM by GameChainsaw

Not having the US as an enemy lessens the power base of the Cuban political party. Even with the US boogeyman, they're already turning to elections as is, so maybe it's a moot point.

We get a little. They get a lot. That's a bad deal. Equality is the goal, at worst, not just giving away stuff. We're the superpower, they're the small fry. Why would we bow to their will in such a nonsensical way?

By that logic—removing a threat from our shore—we could just march a battalion of Marines across Cuba and take it over. We did it once, we could do it again. The Bay of Pigs was a case of "you want it done right, do it yourself." We just decided it would be too much of a hassle—and, kind of, a dick move—to do it.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:14:45 PM by USAF713

If the US chose to end the blockade (which, if you ask me, they should,) one benefit for them would be that their relations with the rest of Latin America would improve. Maybe US politicians don't want Chavez as friend, but he's got some friends that are not liking the blockade that the US should try to befriend more. Like friggin' Brazil.

On the other hand, you don't lose anything important. If you look at it like that, you'll see that your options are:

1. Gain a little;

2. Gain nothing.

Personally, I'd go with 1.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:17:20 PM by BestOf

I forgot about this. See, this is a good argument. Though I'd still be unhappy about it...

As for gain a little versus gain nothing, it's not about how much we gain, it's the fact that they get a lot more.

What's wrong with them getting more if it costs you nothing?

Thats got about the same logic as giving a man a headbutt. Sure, you'll hurt him more, but it was a lot of unnecessary pain to go through.

edited 9th Aug '11 2:22:57 PM by GameChainsaw

Because Cuba doesn't like us? And we don't like them? And they tried to let the Soviets kill everyone?