Cuba and the Embargo

The EU has removed your sense of national self-preservation.

What does the US stand to gain from this? It's up to the US to re-open relations, and we gain nothing from doing so. Unless Cuba drops everything and becomes a state (which I don't want), we're just going to get a tiny market, or nothing will change because of tariffs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

edited 9th Aug '11 1:14:49 PM by USAF713

Keep the embargo. Cuba is the only sunny place we can go where there's no americans/chance of getting shot.

For Americans products to choke Cuban products, there would need to be Cuban products in the first place.

Haha, yep.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:17:32 PM by Erock

Well, my argument has always been, if you lose nothing by taking an action, and it can have a positive action on others, whatever their views, why not take it?

And trust me, given how I often harp on about how underfunded our military is, the EU has not removed my sense of national self preservation. It always astounds Europeans how Americans can be so fearful from a position of such resounding strength. Its like watching a mouse scare a bull elephant.

EDIT: How does the embargo affect tourism?

edited 9th Aug '11 1:17:47 PM by GameChainsaw

Because they are a communist/socialist government.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:18:00 PM by Erock

Can we raise the level of the debate above earth trolls hitting each other over the heads with clubs and grunting guys?

You can't go directly from the US to Cuba. That's the big thing that impacts it. Although lots of people go to Canada and then to Cuba from there.

What do you mean?

What does Cuba get out of it? Nobody in America wants their stuff—except, perhaps, the cigars, at best—and we'd choke their economy if they let us go all out. They don't get anything out of it. There's no point.

And, it's better to act like everything is the end of the world than get complacent and believe you'll never fall. You should know that, British man. Really, though, that's why I hate American Exceptionalism: I don't care whether or not it's right, it breeds the "let's sit on our ass" mentality that's killing this country, slowly but surely...

They would buy American products... if they could afford them.

We've already got enough Cubans in Miami.

That's a huge if.

Also, I oppose communists and socialists on principle. I'm American like that. So, that's not even worth it...

(Translation: the market is too tiny to make it worth opening, even if we could make money off it...)

Alright. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if you lift the embargo, you'll just make a lot of Cubans unemployed.

Thats a fucking crappy position to be in, but hell, I guess I can respect that problem.

You oppose a certain continent to the east of you then. Europe is the place that made socialism work. Or at least, a strange socialist capitalist mix.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:24:40 PM by GameChainsaw

Sometimes, the things we do that seem evil are really only done because there's nothing else that's better.

As sad as that is.

Besides, Cuba almost caused us to end life on Earth over them. They're lucky we don't crush their economy, because I bet, tariffs or no tariffs, if we wanted we could shut their asses down unless they literally banned all American products.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Please.

You're not socialist. You're a welfare state that calls yourself socialist so you can go to bed at night and tell yourself you stuck it to us Americans. If you were socialist, we'd be in another Cold War.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:26:28 PM by USAF713

Well they'd just do that then.

Unless you put a literal cordon around the island, which the US could easily do, you couldn't just crash their economy out. They've survived without the US for a long time now.

Hence why we let them rot: it's kinder than fighting them over the fact that they want to compete with a country more than 100 times bigger than them that's within speedboat distance.

Welfare state, socialist, the meanings start to blur together after you've had them hollered at you as labels from across the atlantic a few times.

See, we can get bitter about what people say about us too.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:29:43 PM by GameChainsaw

Americans are in a unique position. We can sell you your own mother, but we couldn't tell you basic economics terms. It's great for making money, but horrible for setting up any kind of proper welfare or education systems. In other words, why in god's name would you take your economics terms from us? We couldn't actually identify a communist unless they told us what they were.

And then we'd shoot them...

Ok, we're not socialist. But we have distinctly socialistic elements.

You know, maybe its better to drop the isms and just say that Europes system is relatively sane. We don't really do extremism in any form since a certain series of extremely bloody wars.

Anyway, this isn't relating to Cuba. Derail rerailed.

So... damn it. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Well, anyone got a way of dropping the blockade that doesn't leave Cuba overwhelmed by products? I note that the people they trade with normally don't seem to be overwhelming them. Rather punching a hole in that particular argument. If the rest of the worlds trade hasn't sunk Cuba, why would adding the US into that mix change that?

edited 9th Aug '11 1:35:45 PM by GameChainsaw

@USAF: Socialism /=/ communism.

I'd say the more left countries in Europe are socialist.

edited 9th Aug '11 1:35:20 PM by Erock

I know they aren't the same. I dislike both equally on principle. Well, no... communism is worse.

Perhaps. I bet they're also the ones that don't like us. What's your point? I don't see any great loss in not associating with them, just like there's no great loss in not associating with Cuba. You don't like us, we don't like you, and trying to mingle just gives us problems. Cuba is just unique because it's, you know, right fucking there...

Socialism has some good ideas. Free daycare = win.

What Chainsaw said. We're lefty nations, but not too far left.

Rememeber Socialism =/= Communism.

I'm a Socialist (points to sig) who has a tolerance for capitalism (points to Coca-Cola part) if it serves the Socialist interest, and I'm all for free rights and all that jazz.

Anyway, what's Cuba gonna do to America? You literally have a city-worth of civilians with guns.

Again, Cuba has managed to trade with the rest of the world, as far as I know. Its embargoed, not blockaded. Why would America sink the Cuban ship?

Exactly. If the rest of the world doesn't see Cuba as a threat, why should the US?