Marvel Cinematic Universe

I don't think Silver Sable could ever carry a movie by herself. At least when Elektra did it she had some form of mythology from the comics to explore. Silver Sable is great as a supporting character, but "strictly a bounty hunter unless hired to do heroic things" doesn't really scream "cinematic heroine" to me. At least Luke Cake, who was also supposedly all about the money, would do stuff pro bono once in awhile.

I just want to take a moment to marvel at the fact that we live in a world where the success of superhero movies is taken as such a given that companies feel confident announcing sequels to films that won't even come out for another year, in franchises that have proven to be failures.

Exactly my thought, too. In fact, if someone asks me to bet on Fantastic Four being a success, I would laugh in his face. Not that it isn't possible. But I am not particular optimistic. There are too many fans out there who WANT those movies to fail in the hope that the property will then revert back to Marvel eventually.

Yeah, FF is probably going to fail pretty hard. Of the five franchises (Marvel, DC, X-men, Spider-Man, and FF) I expect that one to fall apart first. X-men seems to be very good at staying alive so DC and Spider-Man would probably be next although I don't really want either of them to fail. Marvel will probably remain successful for the foreseeable future provided their next round of movies is good although their profits might decrease because of the competition.

I want The Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four Reboot series to fail on principle, not because I want the rights to go back to Marvel.

I'm sort of expecting the bubble to burst in a year or two. The only survivors will be one or two Disney/Marvel characters, Batman(because Batman always sells) and X-Men(since they have survived everything thus far).

Edit: No one will come out of this alright if the bubble burst.

edited 21st Oct '14 8:16:31 AM by LordofLore

People have been saying the bubble is going to burst soon for a few years now.

On which principle?

If Marvel keeps delivering, they will make the money they want. Feige seems to have a very strong grip on his concept.

With things like this it is only a matter of time.

edited 21st Oct '14 8:20:13 AM by swanpride

@Tobias, People just trying to nip things in the bud because let's face it, it can hurt to be too optimistic.

Odds are, it will burst but it'll take longer than it people are claiming it to be.

The bubble's going to burst, but I don't think it will be anytime soon. They've made good movies. They've made good movies of a variety of genres. They've made bad movies without the franchise taking any hits. They've taken huge risks that paid off in big ways. Right now, Marvel is at the top of its game. Yeah, it'll die eventually, but soon? The only way for the franchise to truly burst within the next two years is if the second Avengers is really, really, really bad.

And it'll be from the movie we least expect.

edited 21st Oct '14 9:00:49 AM by zam

So Cap 3 will have to really, really bad, then.

edited 21st Oct '14 10:44:30 AM by higherbrainpattern

Oh god, don't jinx it, not with it's track record of being so good!

Even if the bubble does burst, its going to be the crap that sinks. People are still going to see the really good movies, you just won't be able to pass off and profit from a mediocre movie. Which means Marvel Studios will be just fine; its Sony and WB that have things to worry about.

You do realize comic fans make up an incredibly small portion of the actual audience right? Don't get me wrong, it could very well fail, but people have a habit of ascribing far more power and influence to "the fans" than they actually wield.

A hundred thousand people seeing or not seeing a movie really do not make that big a difference. There are a bunch of people who want to see the X-Men movies fail too and yet shockingly the last one grossed more than Winter Soldier.

edited 21st Oct '14 1:43:20 PM by comicwriter

One shouldn't forget all the good-will Marvel has built up. Iron Man 3 made a lot of money, despite neither sequel being as good as the first Iron Man. And generally speaking the audience is very ready to overlook a "not so good" movie, because the next might be really, really good again (see Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy). This kind of momentum holds at the very least for three movies. In short, Marvel would have to make three really bad movies in a row before there will be an impact on the box office.

Fox on the other hand has build up some good-will with the X-men, but not with the Fantastic Four. Quite the opposite in fact. I see them prevail with the X-men, but not with their other properties. Especially not as long as Fans clamouring for them to go back to Marvel, and Marvel actively undermining those properties.

DC...well, Batman always sells, but they already rebooted this franchise (and I am still not sure how this is supposed to work in the justice league considering that Batman retired towards the end of the last trilogy). Green Lantern was a flop, Man of Steel was a financial success but controversial, to say at least. I get the impression that DC missed the boat concerning the possibility of a joint franchise, and now, instead of carefully building a new one, they jump into the water trying to catch up. They will drown. I am sure that everyone will want to see the Superman vs. Batman movie, especially with Wonder Woman in the mix, but if this one doesn't pan out critically, that will be it. I honestly don't get why they didn't built up their franchises on what is already successful, which was The Dark Knight and their TV shows, but instead they go for a confusing mess in which some stuff is part of their universe and other stuff isn't...who wants to figure this out? Either do it right or don't do it at all. My prediction is that this won't end well, at least not if they stick to their version of "dark and gritty", which translates to "forget all hope". But especially that's not what the audience wants currently. With the world falling apart economically, they want someone to tell them that there is hope. That's why movies like The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy work so well, because in them, even when everything goes to hell, there is still fun and there is still some kind of win in the end. Still, DC might prevail longer Fox or Sony simply on the merit of being DC.

And then there is Sony...the company in the most uncomfortable position, because the HAVE to make a Spider-man movie every three years to keep the rights, and they have financial problems in general. If they don't come to some sort of agreement with Marvel/Disney, they will sink first. But in this case, it won't mean that they will stop making those movies. They will want to keep the rights, no matter what.

edited 21st Oct '14 2:07:25 PM by swanpride

I am aware of that, but the difference is that the X-men have a strong movie-related following, and some popular movies in the line-up. The Fantastic Four don't. To reboot the Franchise, they need some goodwill from the comic book AND comic book movie fans. And I don't think that they have that from either group.

All of that is kind of irrelevant though because how many people actively follow studios. How many of them are AWARE of the Marvel Studios divide or that the various movies that all have "Marvel" stickers slapped across them are not part of the same studio? I have people telling me "Did you hear? I heard a rumor that Spider-Man and Wolverine will be in the next Avengers!"

Because there was a rumour, since both actors said that they would like to be part of the avengers. If the people don't know the difference, why has TAS such problems to win over the audience? Why wasn't the Green Lantern a big success? While the Disney Marvel movies has a baseline on watchers simply on the merit of being part of the Universe.

Sequelitis, Seasonal Rot, and Franchise Zombie. It's the fifth Spider-Man movie and it doesn't even feature any of the original cast, something that has historically been tough to overcome. Reboots are not the sure thing people seem to think they are. Plus The Amazing Spider-Man did do well enough at the box office and reviews, while the sequel got terrible reviews and poor word of mouth which likely hurt its haul.

Terrible reviews and terrible word of mouth and terrible trailers?

edited 21st Oct '14 2:14:37 PM by comicwriter

And what makes you think that they'll do better with, let's say, Aquaman? A Superhero which has been (unfairly or not) a punch line for ages?

If they make a movie that actually looks good and has appealing trailers, people will come see it. Trying to hedge their bets a bit by making sure to introduce him in another film that likely has a guaranteed audience already helps.

Remember how Iron Man was before the first movie turned out to be good? Aquaman is in the same boat he was once.

edited 21st Oct '14 2:21:09 PM by LordofLore

Yeah, but Iron Man was the start of something new, not an attempt to find footing in an already existing concept, had only to go up against four comic book movies which all hit the theatres later that year and not against nine others, and it was simply a good movie. DC is swimming against the tide with Aqua men and the only way I see them succeed is by making something really good.

Wouldn't that be more of a submarine? Cause he's underwater?

...

Okay, never mind...