The General US Politics Thread

It is sort of ironic isn't it? That the leader of the Republicans is a Russian asset after all that was said and done in the Cold War.

I don't think he'd be hurt by this unless he got a bit more explicit. Something like saying he'll support Russia in all future military endeavors might do it.

https://medium.com/@shitHRCcantsay/let-me-remind-you-fuckers-who-i-am-e6e8b297fe47#.x3jdsx7db

Satire of course, but good lord it gave me life.

That would clash hard with his "America First" spiel (not that he's consistent about anything). Russia would be plenty happy if America kept out of their way though.

edited 27th Jul '16 12:24:15 PM by Elle

On the Trump is an SVR Useful Idiot Spy topic, its not going to be a thing. Has to be proven, but also at best would only negate the effect of the email scandal from Hil's side, as far as media coverage goes.

Which isn't bad, but no silver bullet.

But then the "liberal" media will claim that Trump is supporting ending hostilities with Russia.

Something has to come out of this. We can't just let the fact that Trump is a Russian asset slide.

He's been getting direct assistance and support from what is probably the only true existential foreign threat we face. He's going to dismantle NATO and let the Russians have everything.

This is ridiculous.

"Mr. Trump, should the United States defense contractors be able to sell classified weapon systems such as the F-35 JSF, to countries such as Russia, China, or Iran?"

"We'll look into it...."

edited 27th Jul '16 12:34:51 PM by TacticalFox88

I'm quite sure the Iranians would like the 300 F-16s that the Shah ordered...

edited 27th Jul '16 12:37:44 PM by sgamer82

Calling Trump a "Russian asset" as if he was literally working for Russia is taking things farther than they can really be stretched. What we know is: Russian intelligence agencies have hacked the DNC (among other government and political targets in the US). Wikileaks has published private DNC emails which were leaked to them, and done so in such a way that it seems clear they intend for it to damage the Democratic party in general and Hillary Clinton in general.

That's all that we can claim with any degree of certainty. It's a very short line from there to "Russian intelligence agencies gave DNC emails to Wikileaks" (especially since forensic evidence suggests that the emails posted by Wikileaks passed through Russian computer systems at some point), but that hasn't explicitly been confirmed (and probably won't be).

However, even assuming that Wikileaks is deliberately acting against the Democratics with Russia's assistance, it's a pretty big leap of faith to "therefore Trump is in cahoots with the Russian government and is deliberately acting to advance Russia's interests instead of Americans or his own".

What's far more likely is simply that Russia knows that Trump foreign policy would be far better for Russia than Clinton foreign policy would be, so they're taking steps on their own (without Trump's knowledge, approval, or support) to tilt the scales in Trump's favor.

This is still a rather horrifying situation, but it's not the same as Trump literally being a Russian spy.

No it's not. That said, Trump saying publicly that he hopes the Russians hack her again, is, if not treasonous, than certainly disgusting.

edited 27th Jul '16 1:05:33 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Have you not been reading Trump's foreign policy plans? He will lift sanctions, recognize Crimea as Russian territory, support Russian advancement in Ukraine, will dismantle NATO and will not defend the Baltics.

And today he explicitly asked the Russians for assistance in stealing more emails from the Democrats. And the Russian government explicitly gave those emails to Wikileaks for them to use against Clinton. Assange has explicitly said he opposes Clinton. There's nothing to assume here.

If he's not acting on their behalf then he's worshiping Putin to the extent that he would destroy everything the West has built over the 20th century just to cozy up to him.

edited 27th Jul '16 12:50:21 PM by LeGarcon

@Jovian, did you not read all the links posted here?

Trump isn't just a threat to the progressive movement, but Western Civilization itself.

It still may have nothing to do with Trump being a willing conspiritor (though I'd be curious as to what his actual personal relation or non-relation to Putin is given his contesting claims), but playing sides against each other Batman Gambit style sounds well within Putin's MO.

Trump and the GOP are a threat to global peace at this point.

That's even worse because then Russia can play Trump like a fiddle and won't have to give anything up in return.

Uhm.... Just looking at force strengths, Russia can't take the EU in a conventional fight even if the US and the UK both bails. It's not the Warsaw pact - it doesn't have the equipment or the manpower that alliance did. This should be obvious to Putin, and while adventurism can't really get him invaded (due to the nuclear deterrent) I don't think his government would survive getting thrown back out of the baltics by armored warfare, so he will leave them be. No, the real not-so-much in the interests of the us consequence of the US betraying nato because trump is an idiot would be the nigh-inevitable formation of a european military. Which.. hi multipolar world.

Without the US's logistics ability NATO is nothing. Who's going to stop the Russians in the Baltics?

The Germans? Most of their air fleet is grounded as it doesn't actually work and their small arms are in a similar position.

The EU is a disorganized mess and doesn't have the conventional forces or the will to fight Russia.

@ Noname: And if it comes down to it, the FSB can probably just blackmail Trump — I'm sure there's no shortage of material...

The Germans in particular don't have the will.

edited 27th Jul '16 1:27:10 PM by Greenmantle

Again, there's no guarantee that Trump can actually go ahead with most — if any — of his batshit insane policies, either because he's just saying whatever he believe is necessary to get elected regardless of whether or not he actually believes it or intends to carry it out, or because the Congress and other various Government bodies won't let him. Do I want President Trump? Hell no, but he might not be the Anti-Christ that everyone is propping him up to be.

edited 27th Jul '16 1:31:18 PM by kkhohoho

I don't trust congress to have enough backbone to oppose him. They're already falling in line behind him.

For war in general? Sure, not a lot of appetite. A defensive war for soil belonging to the union?

The eu has a shortage of logistics tail. It also has a lot of infrastructure, a lot of tanks, and a hell of a lot of fighter air craft. European militaries are designed to fight a war in eastern europe. That's what they're for. There are over 400 typhoons flying, all of which can fight over the Baltics from their home bases. That's not an air battle, that's simply a one sided massacre. After which a lot of tanks and armored vehicles get moved by rail and road and that's all she wrote. Europe has more tanks, it has better tanks, and the crews are better trained.

edited 27th Jul '16 1:37:31 PM by Izeinsummer

RE: Putin and the Baltics

NATO isn't liable to go out on a limb for the Baltic states, and especially not if the USA isn't behind them. The Germans in particular can't do it—leaving all else aside, there's too many bad memories of WWII.