A thread to talk about news and politics affecting Europe as a whole, rather than just politics within specific European countries.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:24:05 PM
United Earth
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Man, this'll make good novel material.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
A procrastination in of itself
It looks like this was done by state police, so that at least puts to bed the risk of things turning violent, well turning violent on a large scale.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Time for Catalans to gather a protest march and dare the police to shoot?
EDIT: Referendum thread open.
edited 20th Sep '17 3:16:24 PM by Ramidel
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Lizard Metabolism
Figured I might keep posting Polish stuff here rather than in the EE thread most don't really read.
As you probably know, PIS has been making moves on the judiciary to reshape it for their needs under a guise of doing away with corruption, mustiness and complicated procedures. Recently they've launched a billboard campaign from taxpayers' money where they submit various situations relating the judiciary from "before" and present a solution for "after". Examples include incidents relating individual judges, their salary etc. (even including one judge who's passed away two years ago and served his time for his offense beforehand - that being drunken driving)
However, there is a rift between the camp of Justice Minister Ziobro (closed to boss Kaczyński) and the camp of President Duda; the latter has vetoed two of three proposed PIS laws in the midst of giant protests and now wishes to present his own takes on these laws by Monday. However, apparently the General Prosecutor (= Ziobro) has his designs on one of President's advisors, who notably formed a judiciary law back when it was PO-PSL ruling ('07-'15). There are investigations into the man, "allegedly" not related to the VAT investigation currently going on (yeah, right).
Additionally, President and Prezes have met a few times now; likely to put the former in line. Whether he wishes to comply and stop his rebellion is up to him, but honestly I'll take any kind of discord in the ruling camp if it means they can slip somewhere.
Oh yeah, and Orban recently announced that he and Hungary as a whole oppose the "harsh" treatment of Poland (and any other country should it find itself in such dire straits) by the EU, which probably means that no sanctions or disciplinary action will get to pass on us any time soon.
edited 23rd Sep '17 3:12:49 AM by FergardStratoavis
How do lizards fly?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What powers does President Duda have in regards to stopping PiS besides the back-and-forth/veto process regarding laws?
edited 23rd Sep '17 6:51:08 AM by Quag15
Lizard Metabolism
Polish Presidents don't have much in terms of power; though they still need to okay any legislatures passing through both Sejm and Senate and can suggest their own laws.
I'm not well-versed into politics, but the back-n-forth veto'ing seems like the only way this can end, unless Prezes managed to scare President straight into going back to being his toady or they reach some sort of compromise. Of course, since this is still the same part of the political scene, it's mostly a cold comfort for others.
How do lizards fly?
Update on the upcoming Icelandic election, with the latest poll numbers:
- Left Greens: 30%
- Independence Party: 23%
- Progressives: 11%
- Pirates: 10%
- People's Party: 9%
- Social Democrats: 8%
- Reform Party: 6%
- Bright Future: 3%
It continues to be a poor showing for the Independents, who are now in second place. What's more, a major curveball has been thrown into the mix: Ex-prime minister Sigmundur Davíð of the Progressives (you know, this guy), who was ousted as his party's chairman last year, announced that he's leaving the Progressives and starting his own party to run in next month's elections. Now, Sigmundur is easily Iceland's most controversial politician, a cultish "Great Leader" figure adored by his circle of followers but despised and mocked by everyone else. His departure from the Progressives is likely to sap away some of their scant remaining support, and probably also hurt the right-wing Independents and the anti-immigrant People's Party. The Left Greens seem poised to win big.
Would the Left Greens form a coalition or an agreement with the Pirates (if these poll results ended up becoming the outcome of the elections), or is there a side that wouldn't be interested in such a thing?
edited 25th Sep '17 2:01:02 PM by Quag15
The Left Green's first choice would probably be a coalition of left-to-center parties. The Pirates, Social Democrats, Reform Party and/or Bright Future would be the likely coalition partners. However, there have been a few signs that the Left Greens might also be willing to negotiate a two-party coalition with the Independents if they have to.
Hasn't everyone who has partnered with the Independents suffered for it?
Don't people ever learn?
Indeed. For the record, I believe the LG's chairwoman, Katrín Jakobsdóttir, has denied that she's planning any such thing. People have just gotten a bit suspicious since she's declined to rule out the possibility altogether, and to some it looks like the Greens and the Independents are modifying their stances to be slightly less incompatible. Also, Independence chairman and acting PM Bjarni Benediktsson has implied he'd prefer working with the Greens to forming another three-to-four-party coalition with microparties.
I get the feeling that if they do go grand coalition, the Left Greens will be banking on "it's not like the voters have a choice, LOL." I mean, what are people who object to such a coalition going to do, vote for another leftist party who won't make that kind of coalition? They're as far left as it gets, right?
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
French President Macron presents vision of post-Brexit Europe
Addressing students from several European countries at the Sorbonne University in Paris, Macron began by describing Europe as “an idea carried by optimists and visionaries” while noting that now the idea is “more fragile than ever.”
The French president framed the present in the history of post-war European integration, saying that Europeans are “heirs of two major world wars” that “should have plunged the continent into darkness”, but “we have overcome this pain without forgetting lessons.”
He said that the EU is “too inefficient and too slow”; however, “only Europe can allow us to exist in this changing world”.
Safety is not just bombs and Kalashnikovs
With “safety” the “first” priority and Europe facing the “progressive disengagement of the US” as well as a “sustainable terrorist phenomenon”, Macron proposed a “common intervention force, common budget and common doctrine to act”. He also proposed bringing soldiers from across Europe into national armies, vowing to “welcome into the French army soldiers from all over Europe”.
In addition, Macron called for a “European intelligence academy” with “shared information and shared training cultures.”
Moving onto the migrant crisis with the line “safety is not just bombs and Kalashnikovs”, the French president proposed an “asylum office at the European level” alongside a “European border police” to carry out “strict border control”.
Noting “development of source countries” as an important task, and describing Africa as a “strategic partner”, Macron called for increased European aid to be paid for with an EU-wide financial transaction tax. As Paris already levies this tax, the president stated that he is “willing to give the proceeds of the French tax to Europe”.
Macron also focused on climate change as an area on which the EU is currently “in a bit of a limbo”. On this issue, the bloc should be “leaders of a new societal or civilizational model”, he ventured, while proposing to take the continent in that direction with a “harmonised price of carbon”. It “must be high enough to foster transition”; “under 20 to 30 carbon tons won’t be effective.”
The French president also called for a “European carbon border tax”, so that “industrial companies most exposed to globalisation” are “on equal footing with other parts of the world.” To deal with the consequences of climate change today, Macron proposed a common European “protection force against natural disasters”.
Macron went on to ask if the Common Agricultural Policy “protects farmers and consumers”, before responding: “that’s not my feeling”. He acknowledged that the issue is a “French taboo”, at the same time as saying that a European farming policy “should protect farmers’ revenues” while “protecting against large scale crises”.
Grab the bull by its horns
Macron then sounded a signature note, as he asked his European counterparts to “grab the bull by its horns” to “attract digital talent”. He said the digital transformation gives Europe “so much to gain” but also “so much to lose” – and on this issue, as with the others he discussed, “Europe must reconcile safety, equality and liberty.”
Later, the French president highlighted the importance of Europe’s axis between Paris and Berlin...
Macron followed that with a big proposal to take the Franco-German axis further: "Why not set ourselves the objective that by 2024 we totally integrate our markets by applying the same rules to our companies, from corporate law to bankruptcy regulation?"
Looking outwards, he also pressed for a “simplified” Europe, open to expansion into the Balkans, leaving a place open for the UK if it changes its mind about Brexit, and streamlining the European Commission by halving the number of commissioners from 30 to 15.
Merkel hails Macron's 'passionate' EU reform speech but calls for more debate
...
[The French leader] is keen for Merkel's quick endorsement of his reform agenda, but Sunday's election in Germany left her seeking new allies to rebuild a ruling majority.
Her previous junior partners, the Social Democrats, said they would move to the opposition.
Merkel must now try to form a government likely to include the Free Democratic Party, whose leader Christian Lindner considers Macron's call for a eurozone budget to be a "red line".
Macron appeared to respond to Lindner directly on Tuesday, saying: "I don't have red lines, I only have horizons."
Most of what Macron said is pretty much along the same line of what Germany's parties want, too. But don't expect any arrangement which will put Germany in the position to pay off the debt of other states. That will never happen.
Chaotic Greedy
What self-respecting liberal politician would give up emergency powers that can be used to justify everything? It's their second favorite thing next to fellating the wealthy.
United Earth
Isn't that against the whole point of being a Liberal?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(Avatar by Coffee)
What sorta liberal are you talking about?
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Liberals. You know, your standard free market evangelists, usually with a side order of tax breaks paid for by cutting vital social programs.
Yes. The first part, anyway.
edited 27th Sep '17 2:26:21 PM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
United Earth
So, small government, pro individual freedoms, including speech, movement, drugs, gambling, prostitution, abortion, euthanasia, trade, speculation, etc. Against surveillance, repression, paternalism, or the Nanny State. Basically, "amoral" but "principled". Beloved by a certain type of capitalist and a certain type of artist. Hated by conservatives and authoritarians. Think Freestate Amsterdam, the more gentrified parts of Berlin, or Silicon Valley. Rebellious teenagers who think they know what's good for them and want you to get off their backs, damnit.
A proper liberal would give up powers as much and as often as possible. It's not the Government's job to run people's lives, etc.
edited 27th Sep '17 2:35:29 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Chaotic Greedy
Of course, that's the non-US meaning of "liberal". In the States the closest are "libertarians".
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
It's not that easy. Yes, liberals usually believe in a free market, are anti-surveillance and very much pro-protection of privacy and they have a tendency to believe in cutting tape....but they are also liberal in a social sense. And there is a huge difference between liberals who are simply pro-business in the very Anglo-American "worship the rich and powerful" sense and liberals whose pro-business approach is also about protecting smaller, local companies and who recognize the need for worker protection and basic regulations. In short, there is a huge difference between what "liberal" means on the European mainland and what it means on a certain island. Weather you put a "neo" in front of the word or not.
As far as the UK is concerned, Swanpride has just mostly described the Liberal Democrats, who are very concerned with worker protections, privacy protections and supporting businesses (especially small businesses). This is a centre-ground for UK politics, which is why the Lib Dems are always portrayed as the centre party.
The pro-business, anti-worker protection parties (who are actually anti-business because they're really just pro-corporate/banker) are the Tories and UKIP. Neither of them are described as being liberals; attempting to do so completely misunderstands UK politics and terminology.
Liberalism has a very complicated history in the UK. As a result, we tend to qualify what kind of liberalism we're discussing because the UK has a long history with multiple different kinds of liberalism, all existing at the same time (by qualify, we might either directly state it, or be able to figure out which one from the context of the conversation). It is, however, extremely rare to see 'liberalism' in the UK that reflects the specific brand of 'liberalism' that exists in the US, we're not even comfortable with using that word to describe the American brand ('neo' or not). The closest we've ever had in the UK to what the Americans describe as 'liberalism' is probably the Radical Whigs, which did not survive in the UK, but which did export themselves to the US and contribute to the origin (and some continued beliefs) of the Republican Party. In other words, it's a form of whiggism (but whiggism had many forms and needs qualifying as much as the different types of liberalism do).
For the most part, when we use the term 'liberalism' without qualifying what kind we're talking about, the default assumption should be that we're discussing the liberalism that the Liberal Democrat party espouses. If we talk about the kind of '(neo)-liberalism' in the US, we'll qualify that we're talking about US/American liberalism. If we don't, it's usually because we're either in the US political thread or the conversation is so clearly about the US that the qualifier would be redundant.
edited 27th Sep '17 4:54:12 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Yeah there's a serious risk that the Spanish government's heavy handed tactics are driving away people who'd otherwise support national unity.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran