Croatia greenlighted to join EU

The Benes Decrees were legalizing and institutionalizing ethnic cleansing, nothing more. This is absolutely incomparable to the status of resident foreigners in Germany.

And I doubt the Romance and Slavic nations are much better in this, but whatever, keep your broad brushes...

edited 22nd Jan '12 10:14:55 AM by Octo

My guess would say that Turkey would enter the EU before Russia.

Well, regardless of the EU would ever let them in, there's also the fact that neither fulfill all conditions concerning such things as democracy and basic rights. Turkey did move up in that regard under AKP rule, but it's still not enough. There's still censorship, human rights violations in Kurdistan, and much more. Granted, many people in the EU use this merely as an excuse to have Turkey excluded, but besides that it's also a very real reason why Turkey can't join. And Russia, of course, is even worse.

Aye, with many it's plain old islamophobia, nothing more. Idiots who see "Europe" in tradition to "Christendom", and who hence think that basically by definition a Muslim country can't be part of Europe or the EU.

There are also real reasons, like Turkey's economical standard - while it has been prospering in recent years, it's still lower than that of the EU. However, Romania could enter with an even lower GDP per capita than Turkey, and Bulgaria's was about the same, too. Also, Turkey has a high population, so it joining the EU would upset the balance of power inside it. And most importantly, there is the issue of human rights in Turkey.

So there are real reasons why Turkey can't join, but even if those were non-existent many would oppose its entry on grounds of islamophobia.

@Octo

"The Benes Decrees were legalizing and institutionalizing ethnic cleansing, nothing more"

This is a pretty big claim, what exactly is the Benes Decrees and why does it legalise ethnic cleansing?

Also, don't kid yourself, if either Europe or the US were really willing to oppose Turkey on human rights grounds they should have done a lot more than they are doing now (that is, virtually nothing).

edited 22nd Jan '12 10:56:25 AM by stripesthezebra

Really, that's all? Jeez guys, that happened over 60 years ago, why the hell is Octo still complaining about it now?

For that matter, how the hell did this decree even enter the conversation?

edited 22nd Jan '12 11:08:15 AM by stripesthezebra

What problem does he have with the Yugoslavs?

Also, what happened with Norway during the Libyan war?

edited 22nd Jan '12 11:16:50 AM by stripesthezebra

Czechoslovakia at that time had a German minority of over three million people. What RA called "purged" was an ethnic cleansing of those millions of people! Yes, sixty years ago - but the Benes Decrees are still active Czech law! Active that that had been created to start ethnic cleansing!

As for the Yugoslavian Wars, the Croats ethnically cleansed the Krajina of ethnic Serbs and got away with it.

edited 22nd Jan '12 11:21:55 AM by Octo

And what does this have to do with anything? You seem to have just started accusing Wieren of defending ethnic cleansing for no reason.

Besides, who cares if you can't go to Checkoslovakia? The place sucks, I wouldn't live there if you payed me.

edited 22nd Jan '12 11:24:11 AM by stripesthezebra

<mod hat>

RA Wieren, ban evader, has been re-banned.

And geez, Stripes, I dunno, why should anyone care about genocide that happened less than 70 years ago when the law that caused it was never repealed? I fucking wonder.

No, genocide is not something we condone here, thank you very much.

I'm wondering why he got up and started bitching about it here for no reason. If he wanted to, I'm sure he could start a "reasons Chekoslovakia sucks" thread. Nobody was condoning anything, unless you consider lack of indignation at this (irrelevent) subject condoning.

edited 22nd Jan '12 12:20:32 PM by stripesthezebra

Wieren was the one who brought it up. Octo's response was quite justified, under the circumstances.

Back on topic, please.

Went to Dubrovnik during my short foray into the Mediterranean over a year ago; good Pizza

I assume that's in Checkoslovakia?

Anyway, yeah, does anyone else think it's hilariously ironic that soon the former Yugoslav countries, which fought bloody wars in the name of independence and nationalism, are all soon going to willingly join the EU, and be united again?

Dubrovnik is in Croatia, nowhere near Czechoslovakia. It was mentioned because it was sieged during the Yugoslav Wars.

Furthermore, as everyone knows, Czechoslovakia dissolved in 1992 into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

...That came out wrong. What I meant to convey was more like "I'm sure everyone here knows that the Chech Republic and Slovakia parted ways in 1992, and people are only saying "Chechoslovakia" because we're talking about the early 1990s?"

Actually, why are we talking about that? Let's not.

edited 22nd Jan '12 3:11:32 PM by BestOf

I can agree that Turkey can't join yet, the human rights issue alone would make this a mockery of what the EU stands for.*

But if they eventually get their stuff together, and they wish to come in, why not?

As for Croatia, excellent!

Now I'd like to see some progress with the other Balkan countries too...

Ahhh, this is good. Any enlargement of the Union is good! Turkey? Well, it better clean up its act. We can't exactly have a member state breaking every single Article of the ECHR.

Hopefully, this will lead to a better deepening and widening of the Union.

Any enlargement is good? Uhhh... I almost agree: any properly handled enlargement is good.

If you let someone in without making sure they're gonna work with you and that they have achieved the Copenhagen Criteria, you're in for trouble. If everything is handled well, the enlargement of the EU is indeed beneficial for everyone involved.

Hang on; Croatia is in severe debt... and we're letting them in while we ourselves are suffering from debt?

Can anyone else say "false assurances"?

Croatia has two years to balance its economy, and any deal that we make with them is gonna include a clause that they have to be within the limit (3% of GDP max deficit) when they join. They're not going to be able to go very far with the integration process until we can count on them to not be a burden on the rest of us, at least in the short-to-mid-term.