Prejudice & Privilege: How to combat them.

Inspired by the Racism thread; I figured a more broad-spectrum discussion was in order. So...let's identify problems with our current socioeconomic structure that result in people being marginalized and what changes we could in theory make to deal with the problem.

A few requests...

• Don't just bitch. If you post a problem, make sure you also post a possible solution. Insecurities is that-a-way. The Racism thread is other that-a-way.
• Play nice. This is supposed to be about solutions, not resentment. Most of us have strong feelings about this issue, myself included; that's fine, but I'm asking that we put those aside for a bit. Yes, that includes me; for this gig, I'll try a bit more positivity.
• No quibbles, please. There's a neat function called "hottip" which allows you to post shit in-line with your main text. They look like this
  ^{check the Show Markup Help bar to the left when you make a post to learn how to do this.}
  Use it to explain/define terms you're using, so that we can maybe avoid having this thread devolve into dictionary-waving. *
  ^{in fact, can I request that the mods thump quibble-posts as off-topic? That would be awesome.}

So...We all agree that inequity is bad, right? How do we go about fixing the issue?

Discuss.

Inequity of what kind?

Let's start with classism. *

@blueharp: Mathematical ones, of course. I hated having to deal with crap like x+18/y > 10. They're bad. We need to fix them.

Alright, classism. If you mean outright oppression by the rich, there's only a few ways I could think of to deal with that- the first would be to remove the power the rich have, either by getting more of "the poor" in office or getting rich people sympathetic to their efforts (and willing to make sacrifices to things like their tax cuts) there. Better education to keep people from voting against their interests would help either way, there.

edited 23rd Jun '11 7:28:33 PM by Madrugada

^ Mod hat but don't be scared I'm not a mad mod. I don't know what was borking your post but only the part before the smiley was showing. All I did was cut and re-paste the rest. to make it show,

The cure to classism is socialism.

Classism isn't curable without some form of heavy government-controlled economy; socialism, communism, things of that vein.

To be more precise as to WHY: Humans are hardwired that way. There's literally something that changes about the way you function when you're in a position of power that makes you care less about those below you. It allows effective leadership (Someone without this might, for instance, have the hunters stop fucking with buffalo because on of them got gored.) However, it also creates an amazing potential for douchebaggery.*

edited 23rd Jun '11 7:51:20 PM by Diamonnes

The exact opposite of classism is Marxism, until somebody messes it up.

edited 23rd Jun '11 7:50:02 PM by Grain

I think that as long as there is a difference between what you are able to do if you have money, and what you are able to do when you don't have money, classism isn't entirely solvable. Even Marxism doesn't really solve it. And in my personal experience, the worst classism isn't from the very rich, or toward the very poor; it's upper-middle and middle-class toward lower-middle class/working-poor.

What would help decrease it, I think, would be teaching wealthy kids how dependent their lifestyle is on those blue collar and minimum wage folks that they are looking down their noses at.

I've long believed that prior to being given full adult standing, every person should have to spend six months in a service industry: retail, food service, delivery, cab driver or the like. Walk several hundred miles in those shoes,even if you expect to never have to wear them again.

"I've long believed that prior to being given full adult standing, every person should have to spend six months in a service industry"

I'd vote for you.

Reduce Class-ism :

- reduce number of people in the upper class and lower class. increase middle class. ex : student loan, easy loan for enterpreneur poor, high tax for rich.

- increase public goods so difference between class matter less. ex : more fund to police, public school and public transport.

- increase interaction between people of different class. conscription, madrugada 6-month service industries, public school

- Also agree with wulf, reduce power of upper class, make power more distributed among class. ex: public finance of campaign, reduce lobbying

So agreeing here.

I think I've seen that idea before somewhere.

Replace everyone with robots. Problem solved.

blueharp, it's a considerably less extreme version of the sort of system Heinlein used in Starship Troopers, although I had never read the book when I came up with it. But that's most likely where else you've run into it.

edited 23rd Jun '11 9:46:08 PM by Madrugada

@maddie: personally I think we should go the whole hog and make voting contingent upon serving your country in some capacity, but that A: would never fly and B: is somewhat off-topic here.

So. People have suggested Marxism. Great idea on paper, it's been proven not to work. Next?

Nope, wasn't thinking of that in particular, though certainly a universal conscription concept is relatively similar. I'm actually thinking of a story where it specifically covered the service industries, among others.

edited 23rd Jun '11 9:50:46 PM by blueharp

^^ That is prone to manipulation, however.

Classism could likely be most easily solved through the suggestion approved by Madrugada. It would also, of course, be wise to redistribute wealth from the people at the top of the chain and give it to those near the bottom; not vast swathes, but enough to give those at the bottom a leg-up, and stop those at the top from yanking the chain.

When you say "next", do you mean "next topic"?

He means, Marxism hasn't worked for a handful of countries in the past century, so let's throw out the baby with the bathwater and talk about other alternatives.

@kash: if you've got some theory on how Marxism can be made to work, by all means have at. I'll observe the progress through a telescope, mounted somewhere it's not happening.

Harp, have you read Looking Backwards? I think it's in there as well.

Drunkie, I consider any useful work serving your country, in the final analysis. I'd rather have people filling jobs that would need to be done anyway than be forced to do make-work simply to be counted as serving their country.

edited 23rd Jun '11 10:30:09 PM by Madrugada

In terms of privilege and what an individual can and should do. It's actually very easy (and difficult at the same time).

Own it. That's all.

One individual shouldn't be a martyr for privilege. It's not a reasonable expectation for people to have, and by and large it's not something that people DO have.

But by owning it, you'll be aware of it, and chances are more likely that you won't subconsciously pass it along. Because by and large a lot of the privileges are not out and out racism or classism or whatever. They're simply the way our society IS. Not the way it has to be however.

@maddie: I agree. I just threw that out there so that people didn't think I was prejudiced against the disabled or something *

Re: the hottip: Really? Since when as wisdom or intelligence been restricted to those who are able-bodied? and to go back to the Heinlein well, since when has counting caterpillars been useful work?

edited 23rd Jun '11 11:00:53 PM by Madrugada

I was hoping by useful work, that various mental activities were being counted.