Nationalism and patriotism

This picture◊ illustrates my feelings on the topic. Can anyone guess what they are?

edited 10th May '13 8:50:54 PM by Cider

I'm on a government computer with a filter right now, but I'm going to assume by default that it's a picture of you covered in flag tattoos.

That is the kind of patriot I wish I could be honestly.

No, it is a diagram comparing population density with its drinking water. I am proud of my origins and home but neither is relevant on the world stage and by the end of the millennium they will be even more irrelevant. Everything keeping the totality of global politics from centering completely around those two circles is on its way out. Oil faster than the others.

Conflict and immigration are going to destroy national identity as we know it. It is not even economics but the most basic needs of life: water and space. That is unless disaster reduces population drastically but that will still likely a lot of nations with it.

^Immigration hasn't destroyed WASP core on which American culture is based on. Don't underestimate the strength of cultural identities. Jews are the best example of national identity that has endured for thousands of years.

they're an example of a culture that is also a religion, and an exclusive membership one as well. They also happen to be one of the oldest enduring groups as well, almost all of their contemporaries are extinct.

I would have to say that among the western nations, Israel, America and Russia are the most Nationalistic. Maybe France too.

the wasps (and various caucassian european cultures) aren't like that at all. (And Nationalism & Patriotism are among the most vulgar words in the German language )

edited 23rd May '13 3:43:44 AM by FrancisUno

Caucassians aren't Europeans.

However, you should have noticed that nationalist sentiments are reemerging in other countries apart from Israel, Russia and USA. Even Germans have their nationalistic groups, even if fringe.

edited 23rd May '13 6:10:29 AM by CaptainKatsura

Well, I'd say Nationalism has grown in most countries in Europe since the Euro Crisis began — and in the Far East, too, due to the economic situation and their regional tensions.

edited 23rd May '13 6:12:59 AM by Greenmantle

I read article how Turkey is straying from kemalism into pro-Ottoman sentiments. Turkey won't become sharia ruled dictatorship, that's certain, but growing nationalism can be a problem.

To be frank, going Ottoman vs Fundamentalist Sharia is... not that bad an outcome when it comes to becoming more hard-line. -_- The Ottoman model has traction that can work in a multi-cultural environment, after all. <_< For all its other faults.

It has a lot of pragmatism built in. <shrugs> Wish I could say the same about e.g. the Taliban way of life.

edited 23rd May '13 9:34:31 AM by Euodiachloris

I meant "Caucassian" as in "Politically correct term for White"

And the so-called Nationalists in Germany are mere racist thugs, vastly outnumbered by the immigrants they fear.

Are they a threat? To individuals or small groups, yes. To the immigrant bloc as a whole, no. The nationalsts in Germany are mere bugs, easily swatted.

Also, despite the current riots, the police and military in europe are firmly Anti-Nationalist, and would turn their guns on the nationalists before turning them on the Shariaists.

Patriots, in the sense of many europeans, is not love of Germany, or Sweden, or Holland, of Wagner, Nobel or Rembrandt, but Love of the EU, the Brussels establishment, the Euro.

I wonder why Japan doesn't feel the need to embrace a common currency, or allow mass immigration to compensate for their aging population?

Well it hasnt exactly fix things in Europe.

edited 28th May '13 6:50:39 AM by joeyjojo

NECRO TIME!

I just read this article, What Makes the Expat Lifestyle So Addictive?

There were a couple of paragraphs that I felt were very pertinent:

Two ideas I despise beyond measure.

I remenber when I talk with a nacionalist and white supremasit who told me between other things:

-That EEUU and South africa are white nations, and because well they make the concept of state nations, even they are a minority

-How how inmigration is genocide

-How hitler,hiroito and mussolini where good leader but the rest of the world where jealous

-That the white men where the best and more kind conqueros of all

-That the white people are the Dr doom of the world....not, Im not even kidding that is exacly what it said.

Have anyone have this type of talk with a nacionalist? or it just me having the bad luck of fiding someone so hatefull?

The EU isn't a single nation — and why do you call it the "EEUU" anyhow?

I think nationalism is fine. It's only when you start to hate other nations because of this that you run into problems. For example, I love America quite a bit, but I think it's stupid to hate Canada. it would be impossible to drive to Alaska without them.

Seriously, though: I think it's most healthy for people to think in terms of "how does this help my country?" First off and foremost, and even to consider their nations needs before that of people in other nations (it's usually more efficient to help your own nation than another nation).

Two limits, though:

If your country is right, let it be right. If it is wrong, set it right.

Do not act in the expense of other nations. Hate nobody. For that matter, a healthy global community serves everyone.

Maybe we have to disntinguish between positive nationalism and negative nationalism? Or constructive nationalism and destructive nationalism?

Not to mention talking about internationalism.

EEUU = Estados Unidos = United States.

Letters in Spanish acronyms are sometimes doubled to denote plurals.

What is destructive nationalism?

Nationalism is defined as "one nation/one state". It's exclusivist by nature, and leaves no room for ethnic, racial or cultural diversity. "Patriotism" is the term we use for "Love of one's country", and while patriotism can be taken too far, it isn't as problematic as nationalism has been historically.

Internally, it leads to xenophobia, general discrimination, and so forth. Externally, it leads to unjustified offensive wars (e.g. Iraq War, imo).

Of course, this is just my perception, so, if anyone wants to bring a better definition to the table, go ahead.

I would say it's YMMV, in the sense that it varies from country to country and time to time (in regards to the three types of diversity). I can agree, though, that it has often lead into that path.

edited 30th Jun '15 11:29:14 AM by Quag15

That's debatable. Civic nationalism is very much a thing.

Not really, no.

edited 30th Jun '15 12:28:37 PM by Achaemenid

Even down to the town (or part of town) you come from.

This seems mutually contradictory: "seek your nation's interest first" and "do not act in the expense of other nations"?

Civic Nationalism is usually a rotten lie, in that:

• it is often only paid lip service to, and the actual sentiment is very ethnocentric
• cultural diversity is smothered in uniformity

This is especially problematic when a Civil Religion phenomenon emerges.

"Civic Nationalism" is mis-named, because it isn't referring to an ethnicity at all, but uses the word "nation" as a stand in for "country".