The Pledge of Allegiance

Hmm, "One nation, out of many" is a good substitute. I'll probably start saying that instead of staying silent.

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

Wait, so do you do the pledge then the anthem? That's a time sink every day.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

No, the anthem is not done every day. It is performed before nearly all sporting events, though.

Belief or disbelief rests with you.

Yeah, for just about all countries I know of, it's played before major sporting events, after the Olympics and not much else. Well, and US schools apparently.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Only for special events. I think that the US anthem is pretty crap though, America the Beautiful would be better, if less accurate.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I don't think I could stomach something like that over here. Imagine starting class every day with a chorus of Rule Britannia or some other nonsense peice of pomp?

No, things like this are just plain weird to me. Do they think that reciting the same phrase day after day is the sole defence to stop kids from growing up to be Dodge-Drafting Al-Qaeda Communists? It's all a bit Mc Carthyist, isn't it?

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

I like the pledge of allegiance...

and I interpret the "under God" bit as saying that we'll never try to act like we're like godly, which is a wrong interpretation, but whatevs.

I felt weird not saying it though...in my old school, noone got up to say the pledge, which we only did weekly.

Interesting footnote - although there isn't a British Pledge of Allegiance per se, I believe they do extract some kind of oath/promise of loyalty from people being granted British citizenship for the first time (as opposed to those born with it).

I rather like the idea of it being assumed that you're loyal until proven otherwise, rather than having to prove it. Clearly, there are differences for the US, not least that it was built on waves of relatively recent immigration. All Britons are ultimately immigrants too, but for most of us that was a very long time ago.

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

Some legal background. The US Supreme Court declines to hear an appeal challenging the pledge as violating the establishment of religion.

From the article: "The New Hampshire School Patriot Act's primary effect is not the advancement of religion, but the advancement of patriotism through a pledge to the flag as a symbol of the nation," said the unanimous opinion, by 1st Circuit Chief Judge Sandra L. Lynch.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Pledge of Allegiance = statist groupthink.

Enjoy the Inferno...

You don't have to say the Pledge. If you're made to do it, that's a teacher abusing their authority. End of story.

I don't see why someone would care about this.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

And Aperture Science thanks you for your support.

Personally, I never had a problem saying the pledge. I don't remember saying it too terribly often in high school*

and I never got in trouble for not saying the words "Under God", nor can I remember anyone who did.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

It's weird- I liked the Under God part.

And yet, I'm not too big on religion (atm).

My teachers varied on whether or not they would make you say it. Many didn't. Probably partly because many knew that students and staff would jump on their asses if they did. Some have gotten in trouble for sending students to detention because they refused to even stand.

Most would at least require you to stand and shut up to my knowledge. A few said "Do what you want so long as you're quiet. I don't care what your reasons are. You have a right not to,". These very same teachers wouldn't make you stand during the national anthem either. Most other teachers would want standing during this however. Along with most of the other staff. As a way of being polite and respectful.

A few teachers were very open about your ability to oppose your teachers' authority in certain cases. Such as a violation of your rights (forcing you to say the pledge or stand for it) or when you knew the teacher didn't know their shit or when the teacher was badmouthing some group. My theatre teacher in particular encouraged that we do this to her whenever she slipped up.

I personally stopped saying it in middle school. I would stand though. The pledge was said daily throughout all my years of school.

I live in Southern California though. In a decently liberal portion of Southern California.

edited 15th Jun '11 12:53:28 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

That's sort of interesting, we start every school day with the anthem but we've never had to do a pledge.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Anthem was sung by a student during every assembly.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

We'd have the anthem play right before classes started not that anybody reeeally cared that much.

The oath of allegiance is only required once, when becoming a citizen, which for people born as citizens, you don't have to say it. In fact, for the longest time, until recently, people pledged their allegiance to the British crown :) But now we have an equal throne for Canada that you can pledge your allegiance toward (it's just the same person holding that throne as is holding the British one).

edited 15th Jun '11 1:22:45 PM by breadloaf

I am baffled by th practise. Yeah, sure we sang the national anthem in school a few times here, and there were things with the flag, but daily chanting of the rite of the sacred flag or whatever you call it sounds just so weird.

Basicaly, it's one of those "do you love America? Prove it" things. I liked in Catch Twenty Two when the officers started the patriotic arms race, and demanded people take the pledge and sing the star spangled banner several times in order to get their dinner.

It's cult behaviour. No different from waving the little red book or five daily prayers to Mecca.

the statement above is false

Cult behavior's one way of making a perfectly okay thing sound dark. How about recognition of the two ideas of unity but freedom, which last I checked, the United States is more or less founded on.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

In my experience, only elementary school teachers are really militant about it, and even then, at least in GA, they can't force you (because of Jehovah's Witnesses who don't believe in it, they don't want any lawsuits). So if a teacher writes a student up, the student would have a case saying it was religious discrimination or something.

Jethro is just making me giggle...It makes me think of the chants we do at temple...WE ARE A DEATH CULT. More proof to my claims.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

@Usht: Founded on freedom, by slave owners.

And why I call it cult behaviour, is that in no other free country would somehting like this really be considered. Mostly because strong nationalism has a bad history in Europe. The pledge has no functional meaning. it's ritualistic praise of the country. The point is, that the kids are not asked to like america, they are told to recite a mantra about how America is great, no questions asked. It's meant to wash dissent out of their brains.

[ed.]@Aon: Eh, it's not like Buddhists have never went to war, if not on strictly religious reasons, but using the unified Buddhist identity as a reason. c.f Sri Lanka.

edited 15th Jun '11 2:04:19 PM by JethroQWalrustitty

the statement above is false

I'm not sure if most teachers who make us say it are really bent upon erasing dissent from our brains. Perhaps in the early stages it was instituted for the exlicit purpose of propaganda, but now it's just a thing we do because we always have. Not saying that's any better, and I agree that it should go, but you don't have to assign malicious motives to something pretty mundane and mostly fueled by apathy/not wanting to change an old practice.

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

Just because it was founded by hypocrites doesn't change the fact that the nation values the ideas and continuing attempts to move closer to those ideals.

Now, as much as you can go on about how bad of a thing nationalism is, it's also a good thing, in short, it's a tool to unite people, and if no one is united, it's not a functional country.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

But in the particular case of America, I think we could do with more people who both like the country and are capable of pointing out when it screws up big time, rather than blind lovers or blind haters. Promoting nationalism too much tends to mostly create blind love, while provoking dissenters into blind hate because they're sick of all the nationalistic propaganda. A more nuanced approach would be nice.

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."