Why is incest bad?

@King Zeal

Um. I just addressed why there's no point.

At least for close blood relations. Cousins may still benefit from a marriage license.

Because I, personally, would only allow it because it manages to hit a rather unique gray area in my moral system.

Once again, I'm not saying it should be encouraged or condoned, merely tolerated. It does carry tangible risks to society. It's merely a question of whether they outweigh the people's right to do what they like as long as it's not directly harming each other. I don't think the lack of direct harm is outdone by the theoretical indirect harm.

Therefore, I think we should take every pain to discourage and minimize the practice, short of actually banning it legally.

~shrug~

Well, I personally would disallow incest just because generally the point of marriage and coupling is to produce new families and connections, not simply insularly perpetuate existing ones. It's sort of a matter of, you're already family with all of your blood relations, so instead of keeping the same existing relationship going but just in a different way, the idea is to expand your family by falling in love with a new person to connect your family with.

And the same goes for even homosexual couples, in that regard.

edited 29th Oct '11 9:27:02 PM by Jeysie

^ What about adoption?

Er, what about it? Adopting a kid doesn't connect your family to the kid's existing family, it switches the kid from that family to yours.

edited 29th Oct '11 9:28:57 PM by Jeysie

Jeysie: Being related to someone doesn't mean you have the same social rights as a spouse.

USAF: It sounds extremely insulting to tell someone "we tolerate you, but don't condone you".

edited 29th Oct '11 9:47:45 PM by KingZeal

You have most of the same legal rights as a spouse would, actually, yes. A marriage license would confer very few extra rights.

Unless you mean pure "interacting with people" social rights, in which case, dude, nobody's gonna care if you have a license or not, they're still going to consider being married to your blood relative fucking weird.

And? Like I said, moral gray area. It warrants tolerance, not approval.

~shrug~

I mean, well, what if a person wants those "few" rights?

Even if genetics wasn't an issue, foe still has a point about it being unhealthly form a social ponit of view.

edited 30th Oct '11 2:25:25 AM by joeyjojo

@King Zeal

Then you draw up a legal contract?

I mean, honestly the only right I'm even thinking of right now off the top of my head that a blood relative doesn't have versus a spouse is filing jointly on your taxes, and that's not even always a benefit.

I mean, honestly, the entire point of a marriage license to begin with is to make someone part of your family, basically allowing you to treat the person as if they were a blood relative.

edited 29th Oct '11 9:57:00 PM by Jeysie

No, you don't really, in many ways and to degrees of consanguinity that many people would consider incest.

My first cousins could not necessarily be allowed to come see me in the ICU although my spouse would.

If I die without a will (intestate), my spouse would automatically inherit at least half of my estate simply by virtue of being my spouse. My cousin might or might not get anything, depending on the state's laws. In my state it would go to (in order): my parents if they survived me; my siblings if my parents were dead; my siblings' children, if my sibs were all dead; my parents siblings (my aunts and uncles). My cousins would only be in line if my parents were dead, I had no sibs (or they were dead and had no children) and my aunts and uncles were all dead.

I can't put my cousin on my health insurance through my employer. I can't put my siblings on my health insurance through my employer.

I can't claim a sibling or cousin as a dependent on my taxes except under very specific circumstances, nor can I file a joint income tax form with a sib or cousin.

Hence why I said "Cousins may still benefit from a marriage license." And many places actually allow first-cousin marriages.

it messes up the gene pull and is morally repugnant, how can you even ask this? i know people molested by siblings its no different

Jason, there's a huge difference between "Molested by" and "Consentual". Equating them is fallacious.

in many cases though, it is true.

incest is illegal in most places, or it should be if it isn't. it's just plain wrong and messes up gene pulls, is sick and messed up.

anything closer than third cousins should be completely illegal

And what if they don't breed?

Is incest illegally in most places? I thought I was one of those things were were common sense was typically seen as enough.

Depends. Sibling and parental incest is illegal across the board. Incest between cousins is legal in some places, including half of the states in the US.

its still fucked up. its not often you see a brother and sister having sex when it is not the result of some kind of sexual abuse being in the family history.

-=-=-=

anyone who defends incest closer than 3rd cousins (when you are not Egyptian Pharaohs or the last family on earth, both are very unlikely) is seriously fucked up in the head. 2nd cousins might get a pass in some countries though.

edit:

I think its roughly 2nd cousins where the line is drawn in most places. some places let 2nd cousins marry.

edited 29th Oct '11 10:40:34 PM by jasonwill2

I reaaaaaaally hate thinking about incest o-o Idea of it feels incredibly disgusting... I think westermarch(sp?) effect doesn't only make you not have romantic interest in siblings, but also feel disgusted at idea of it...

...But I can't find really good reasons that someone couldn't argue about homosexuality(like, some straight people seem to find idea disgusting for some reason :P Also, in the past it wasn't considered a good thing, so you can argue that incest as taboo is also cultural reasons that will change when people become more open minded -_-; And there probably ARE siblings who have had normal life together who love each other in that way... Since of westermarch effect you could say that there is something wrong with their heads, but someone probably said same thing of the homosexuality..) Which is why I can't comment on it.

...And I hope nobody read that post and misunderstood what I said Just to clarify: No, I don't find homosexuality same as incest nor I find it bad. I find incest bad thing, but I can't argue against in the way that can be only applied to incest. I mean, for example, the genes going bad thing? The fact is that that only happens after multiple generations of incest... And you could probably argue same about people who have had been affected by radiation or certain chemicals. Besides, you can argue that "Love is more important than all other points"

edited 30th Oct '11 12:03:15 AM by SpookyMask

When you say that such-and-such an argument is wrong for such-and-such a reason, you have a chance of convincing people. But if you say that anyone who could make such-and-such an argument is fucked in the head, you're just going to piss people off. Some people have different levels of squick. (I mean, I could say that anyone who drinks their own blood after accidentally cutting themselves is fucked in the head, but I don't think I can get away with saying more than that I think it's disgusting when people drink their own blood after accidentally cutting themselves. When talking about incest that doesn't result in children, I don't see any more tangible harm to it than to the blood-drinking thing.)

(Inb4 "anyone who has oral sex is fucked in the head.")

Most places let second cousins marry, and in many places sex is legal between first cousins (but not marriage).

Also, adult incest is very rarely prosecuted even when illegal, especially if no children result. As a practical matter, adult close-relative consensual incest is so damn rare that it's hardly worth the effort to do anything about it. The fact is, the combination of Westermarck effect and societal taboo controls it quite effectively already.

Non-consensual incest is of course a much different matter, very highly abusive, very highly damaging, and should be fought against.

Nonconsensual incest is rape pure and simple.

edited 30th Oct '11 2:28:56 AM by joeyjojo

Exactly, but worse because it is rape by someone in a position of trust and intimacy.