Libertarianism in Europe

This seems to be my impression. It reminds me of how people were generally pretty open to the EU's earlier socialist efforts (pool western Europe's resources for its own benefit,) but then when the EU started pushing neoliberalism (enlarge into part of the 3rd world, drop trade barriers for the rest of it) then their referenda began getting blown to pieces in the polls. Hopefully government bureaucrats will stop listening to neoliberal economists before everything goes to hell.

Eric,

...Those neoliberal ideas are actually good ideas, though.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

No, those are awful, horrible ideas, since they would result in Europe turning into a 3rd world hellhole, also destroying any chance surrounding 3rd world nations have of benefiting from their prosperity and stability to get a leg up in the future.

Eric,

No, because as any economist can tell you, trade barriers are bad.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Agreed, trade restrictions are a massive impairment to the world economies, forcing smaller countries to produce the few things they're allowed to sell to bigger ones. Remove the barriers, increase the choice, improve the world.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

That's exactly backward, since free trade has devastated the economic diversity of the 3rd world, unrestrained market forces bending them into single-industry economies that are extremely vulnerable to the price volatility of the few things they make, and giving foreign industrialists carte blanche to plunder natural resources without legal restraint. Protectionism benefits everyone, we have laws for a reason, failing to apply them beyond our borders is hypocritical and immoral.

At the risk of further derail, let's just say that too much freedom can be a bad thing.

Eric,

• spits cereals over screen*

I demand a quote from an economist supporting this.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

Euro Free State Project Facebook Facebook / Euro Tea Party Facebook / Euro Libertarian Students Facebook / Summit Yes, there are Libertarians in Europe. List Austria, Belgium, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, etc. have libertarian parties.

Euroscepticism can go with it, but it's all over the spectrum.

edited 2nd Jun '11 12:51:44 PM by secretist

TU NE CEDE MALIS CLASS OF 1971

A non crazy one preferably.

Fight smart, not fair.

No, protectionist 1st world programs (like agricultural subsidies) and kleptocratic 3rd world leaders are to blame for that.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

The Polish one is not really libertarian. It's mostly conservative or conservative liberal but it has a few libertarian members. Many libertarian disagree with it though for ideological reasons (i.e. the party's association with nationalist and christian traditionalist organization)

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

Not entirely. "Free" trade can also mean that countries that can afford to produce something at a lower cost (say China and rice production) can undermine home produced items and cost a wide section of the population employment. At least I assume thats how it would work.

Sometimes, but lets face it, way of the world is that the bigger fish in the international trade market will rig the regulations in their own favour. Such as by getting great economies of scale by forcing a smaller country to focus its export efforts almost entirely on a single product, so it can be imported en masse cheaply.

French agricultural subsidies are a fantastic example of pointless, needless 1st World greed fucking over even other 1st world nations (they're the reason the European Common Agrigultural Policy is such a farce; France doesn't want to piss off its farmers, and its farmers aren't prepared to give up their lucrative subsidies for anything/one).

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Hear, hear!

Though I'd like to add that kleptocratic 1st-world leaders are also at fault.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Of course. But again, theft is not free market. It's against property so it's pretty much anti-market

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

The VAT tax is back door protectionism put into it. When things get imported they add a hefty tariffs to balance out the fact that a VAT wasn't placed on it in every step of production. Citizen of their countries get rebates to negate the VAT. CL

edited 3rd Jun '11 11:35:35 AM by secretist

TU NE CEDE MALIS CLASS OF 1971