Metal Gear/ Metal Gear Solid

The War Economy is basically a global command economy run by AI that has a total lack of empathy and more than a little contempt for humanity. If GW is any indication, the Patriots really don't think much of people.

The whole thing is utter madness. Even worse, people got so used to it that even after being freed of the Patriots they couldn't rebuild their economy into something more sensible. Hence the global recession in Revengeance.

Who knows. Maybe if they had been programmed with empathy and compassion like Strangelove intended, things might have been different. The wiki page on the War Economy suggests this.

Edited by M84 on Nov 21st 2023 at 7:02:32 PM

You know Liquid's story always made me kind of sad. He spent his entire life living in BB's shadow and the one time he tries to carve his own name into history, he dies from a heart attack. In fact his whole plan was centered around trying to avoid that fate and it still gets him. Then he comes back to life and is killed offscreen for an awful retcon. Obviously, I'm influenced by the fact the he's my favorite villain but still, a sad life for a sad man.

Liquid Snake is ultimately a psychotic manchild who was told he was born wrong and driven over the edge by it.

It’s quite sad yeah. He was trying to validate his own existence by surpassing Big Boss and giving soldiers a place where they would be honored and celebrated as heroes, but his means of getting that recognition is plunging the world into eternal war.

I always did like how he’s actually the superior clone to Snake, but ended up losing. He’s such a great villain exemplifying the gene theme.

The Last Days of Foxhound comic may be influencing me but there's a certain level of humor to the idea that Liquid is a genius intellect but a complete meathead. Basically, all of his decisions are technically sound but made from incredibly dumb reasoning.

He wants to make a true Outer Heaven because it would make him better than Big Boss except, well, he doesn't give a shit about his fellow soldiers.

So it's all meaningless.

Yeah, the webcomic is a parody but it nails Liquid quite well.

He's an idiot but this very specific topic and insecure as hell, as well as a pawn of Big Boss.

Though that aspect of their dynamic came from the OG PS 1 game translation change that implied Liquid was raised by Big Boss and repeatedly called a failure, something Kojima did not intend, and the guy is very strict about his scripts being followed so it was changed back for Twin Snakes.

Even Naomi has strange thoughts on genes in MGS 1. She seems to want to give them too much credit for how much they effect a person's growth and potential.

In MGS 3, Para-Medic admits to Naked Snake while discussing genes that they're just one factor; They can perhaps predispose someone a certain way, but doesn't completely define them.

Well I think that's because Kojima himself didn't really do the research. The characters are only as smart as the writer is.

Plus he wanted to make a point about genes, that they don't really define people as you can see with Solid and Liquid. MGS 2 has shown he will destroy the internal logic of the story to make a point plus there are all sorts of biology fails like Big Boss having soldier genes and that injecting them into the Genome Soldiers will SOMEHOW make them stronger.

Instead of just killing them.

But yeah, the theme is still there with the twin snake, Liquid is someone who wallows in how he was supposedly born wrong and is inferior to Solid, while Solid doesn't care about it and lives his life.

It's quite an inspiring and applicable message to people who feel insecure about being born different like down syndrome, ADHD, or even from a nationality that is looked down upon. Kojima's research on biology might be nonsense in some parts but the theme of Gene is there.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 22nd 2023 at 4:11:38 AM

Right, I should've been clearer - Its entirely intentional that Naomi has weird thoughts on genes, as part of the theme.

I never understood why Liquid was so obsessed with his Recessive Jeans and was so jealous of Solid Snake's Dominant Jeans, but then at the end, during their big fight, he only takes off Solid Snake's shirt but leaves his pants on instead of finally taking them for himself and at long last having the Dominant Jeans.

Do you ever stop and think that when the name Snake is mentioned, it's universally agreed to be referring to Solid Snake every time, when Liquid and Solidus also had Snake as part of their names, yet we never call them just Snake?

Edited by WillKeaton on Nov 21st 2023 at 4:06:31 AM

Yeah, Big Boss raised Gray Fox as his son. Not Liquid.

It does make me think Big Boss assumed Solid was like Liquid and a Tyke Bomb Psychopathic Manchild.

Solid, Naked, and Venom just have main character privileges.

For what it's worth, Big Boss did reveal he was Snake's father at some point before Outer Heaven so there's some regard there even back then and he did personally train Solid.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 22nd 2023 at 4:47:05 AM

Calling Solidus "Snake" just feels wrong in the mouth.

Solidus is kind of a pathetic character. He's not even the real Big Bad of the game he debuts and dies in. At least Liquid was the Big Bad in one game (and his personality was faked by Ocelot in a different game).

Metal Gear Solid 2 gets props for making a Metal Gear itself the true Big Bad. Namely, Arsenal Gear via its AI "GW".

Well yeah, Solidus isn’t the main character, so he never gets called Snake.

Imagine calling Liquid, Snake as well. It’s also just as wrong.

I mean... At the beginning of the Plant chapter, Solidus is literally calling himself Solid Snake.

"NO THAT IS NOT SOLID SNAKE!"

Also the boss to surpass Big Boss. Yeah that didn't work out.

I don't know what you mean. He is THE BIGGEST BOSS BOSS BOSS BOSS.

But for real, locked in syndrome and then used as an organ bank for Big Boss. Not nice.

I never dislike Solidus because he maintained the sanest of the goals even his methods were deplorable.

Just like how it does not feel right to call Liquid or Solidus “Snake”, it feels a bit weird calling Solid Snake just “Solid”.

Oddly enough it does not feel too weird to think of Venom Snake as just “Venom” or “Snake”.

The weirdest of course is calling Naked Snake just “Naked”.

Not the way I play as him!

I see him as an excellent villain in the context of the game. A man so obsessed with an idealized legacy that he’s played like a fool and used by the very people he sought to overthrow.

Patriots played him harder than how Ocelot used Liquid.

I feel like it's weird that Kojima drew the line at silly by not calling Solidus, "Gas Snake."

That would imply he's neither Solid nor Liquid, Solidus is the the state between Liquid and Solid, and it's to indicate he's a perfect clone who has both the dominant and recessive traits of Big Boss.

Yeah it's not actually accurate biology wise, but this is what Kojima was going for.

Plasma Snake would be funny.

I vote for Bose-Einsteinium Condensate Snake.