LGBTQ+ Rights and America

and our point doesnt seem to register with you. The teacher knew ahead of time the child had a rather unique family situation . And instead of what would seem to me the logical concklusion (telling a white lie so the 10 year old can believe the family tree was done absolutely correctly) she argued with the kid till he was in tears.

The lad ended up in tears. You don't end up in tears if you're just slapped on the wrist for drawing outside the lines, usually. Get sulky, sure... but not tears.

He wasn't given the tools to map the tree "correctly" ergo, he wasn't wrong. If he were not told how to map "adopted sibling" or "adopted parent", how the heck could he get it "right"? No wonder he was not just unhappy, but frustrated!

Worse: to be told that it was wrong was an attack on the family! Of course he'd be touchy! He's just got a new one! It was stupid cornering him into that situation in the first place!

edited 26th Oct '12 8:46:34 AM by Euodiachloris

I think you're rather underestimating the intelligence of the other posters here, Maxima. We (well, most of us) considered those alternate explanations and we found them highly unlikely, so we ruled them out. I mean, it's entirely possible that the teacher had been abducted by aliens the previous night and his skinsuit-wearing replacement wasn't entirely au fait with the idea of families rather than litters yet, but do we have to take that into consideration before we condemn the guy?

edited 26th Oct '12 8:50:19 AM by Iaculus

Because we are assuming that Polar has given us all the relevant facts, while you appear to be assuming that there are facts that Polar has not given us. I think that is the main disconnect here.

To be honest, I think he should have been praised for solving the problem using the methods he did: he didn't use "step-child" in the tree for his siblings: that shows how close he obviously feels towards them, if, in his mind, he could only label them with "blood-tie".

Without the correct tools, that's a touching and innovative little detail, not to mention a clever way to solve an internal issue. Even more was how he solved the mother-father problem. That's beyond touching! And, sensible, to boot.

edited 26th Oct '12 8:55:37 AM by Euodiachloris

This.

If I was the teacher, knew he was adopted, and saw he considered his adopted siblings blood relations and one of the mothers as his "father" I'd be giving him a hug and praising him.

because I think thats the most adorably touching and heartwarming thing I've ever heard a ten year old think.

edited 26th Oct '12 9:02:39 AM by Midgetsnowman

Yeah, when a kid manages to solve the teacher's mistake you don't tell them they've done wrong.

Everybody makes mistakes, sure. But not all mistakes are equal. If I order a sandwich, and they put mayonnaise when I asked for mustard, it's annoying but not a life-changing screwup. If a surgeon goes about their job haphazardly, a patient could die. Teachers are somewhere in between. They're molding the minds of the future. I'd expect them to be a bit more careful than the sandwich maker though not quite as much as the surgeon.

Hey, now. I understand that enlightening her on adoption would be the mature thing to do. Doesn't change my feeling that she was being a dumbass. I call em like I see em.

"Now, Silasw is completely correct."

Mind if I sig that?

I'd be okay with the teacher dropping the ball and simply making a mistake when it comes to lesson planning, mistakes do happen. But it's the fact that the teacher managed to reduce Polar's kid to tears that gets me grumpy. It stinks of the teacher being unwilling to accept that they made a mistake in planning the lesson. The worst part of many modern education systems is how they try to make the kid conform to the system rather then making the system fit the kid.

However I do agree that this should be treated as a chance to teach the teacher. If they can come out of this understanding that they screwed up and wanting to do better then we have a silver lining. If nothing else I'm a big fan of the fact that the teacher is gona apologise with the kids there, personally I don't think the teacher should be apologising to Polar or her partner, but shodul be apologising directly to Polar's kid.

Um... I brought that up... <confused>

With such an arbitrary label of "wrong", the teacher did unintentional damage to the whole class, not just Polar's son: that all will need careful fixing. Even if it were just a case of "damn, need more caffeine", I could have handled that better with low caffeine, blood sugar, a work-load pile and a Head breathing down my neck.

The moment a pupil retreats into a native language to both defend themselves (and attack you), you've muffed it. Big time: and should start building bridges as a response, right then and there. A hug and/or other caring action wouldn't hurt. Or a sorry, and an explanation that even teachers are people, too, and mess up. And, then turning to the class and explaining that, although "wrong" from a purely semantic viewpoint, what he did was also very "good", so worth higher marks that you'd think. And, this is why: <explanation of adoption goes here>.

edited 26th Oct '12 9:25:27 AM by Euodiachloris

The only time I had to do a family tree in school was in Spanish class, learning the words for family and what not.

These were preprinted sheets the teacher had been using forever that had a very nuclear layout, complete with great grandparents. We had to fill in our family names, title, and a short description to practice the gender based adjectives and verbs we'd learned earlier.

Here is how she explained it as she was passing it out:

"Okay guys, the rules are on the board (cited above) and here's the deal on these sheets. If you don't have an actual family member to fill the spot I want you to make something up. This doesn't have to be accurate, though that would help for when you practice. But let's say you don't have any aunts on one side. That's when you can invent Tia Hullabaloo with blue hair and green eyes who likes surfing and bakes cookies with you. I'm more concerned with your grammar than what you're describing. Remember to use your dictionaries to fill in blanks."

That was it. Not only did she keep the lesson relevant, she also allowed for kids who couldn't fill blanks or kids who may not have good things to put in those blanks a lighthearted escape and a way to grade the lesson honestly. I got an A for saying my mom had dark red skin and purple hair and we swam with dolphins every Friday because of my translation.

Even if the teacher forgot about this child's situation, when she looked at his page she should have said, "oh! I forgot to show you adoption! This is great and I don't want you to change this, but next time, here is how you would show adoption."

Move on. Lesson is made. Kid's still learned how to do it "right" and everyone is still happy. The teacher isn't sitting there being an ass, unintentional or otherwise. The kid isn't crying. Hell, they had to pull in his little brother to try and calm him down! Now the teacher has disrupted two classes over a very little and foolish thing. And then when little brother gets there, he doesn't do anything but stick by his brother and refuse to say anything until they called a parent!

There are so many points where the teacher could have just backed the hell off. They're 10! It's like what, 3rd or 4th year? It's not college algebra or something monumental. It's a damned tree!

And it doesn't matter how ugly or not the teacher was. She used the words "incorrect" and "wrong". She was probably too persistant and plain insensitive. I'm willing to bet that if she happened to say something like "you're not a real family", we'd be posting an article about how a teacher got her head ripped off by a Naval Officer for making her son cry.

Nah, they would have just demanded that teacher's job on a platter and probably filed suit. I don't see either mother being willing to accept an apology for something that was actively malicious.

Who said anything about active malice? <confused> She obviously trod hard on emotional toes in an area she knew would cause issues: that's a mistake! Unintended or not, she handled it appallingly!

It doesn't matter if she went out with an agenda, or just really messed up. Badly done is badly done.

edited 26th Oct '12 2:03:33 PM by Euodiachloris

Actively malicious: intentionally provoking the kid with insults or hateful remarks

"You're not a real family, they're not your real siblings" that's malicious.

I know it's kinda hard for you to imagine a family form like theirs, but that's irrelevant. The teacher was an asshole who failed her job. And instead of just admitting her humanity and moving on, she traumatized two kids.

Now that whole grade knows Polar's youngests as "others" because of their adoption. Anyone who may not have known they were adopted or had two moms certainly does now. And this kid cried in class and spoke in a different language. I really hope he doesn't get teased for this.

You don't know how the other 10 year olds in his class around him are going to register the situation, nor their parents at home.

Teacher fucked up. Bad.

Has anybody heard about legislation that would prevent schools from discussing homosexuality with kids? Is that a thing, or did I imagine it?

It's a thing, Morgi. "Don't Say Gay" bills are what they're called, and I believe one was in Tennessee.

Indeed.

First off, apology was well received. The Missus took all four kids and met the teacher in her class hall with all the other kids coming in before class and accepted the apology. All four kids and girlfriend shook the teacher's hand. Day went on as usual. My girlfriend wanted the teacher's apology in front of the other kids not to shame her more, (My daughter said the teacher looked terrified upon seeing my girlfriend in her blues.) but as Gabrael pointed out, I don't want anymore of my kids teased or shunned. We've already had problems with the older two. We didn't want anymore. My girlfriend also wanted to confirm with our kids we are a family, to hell with the world, and they never have to face anything alone.

Now, Starship... I ignored your first posting and here is why: saying how you're not trying to be an asshole doesn't negate asshole behaviors. You may not mean to come off like that, but between your adament assertion my adoption is against your faith, my relationship is against your faith, and your constant comparisons of ancient persecutions of Christianity to the modern day persecution of the LGBT community, and now your implications that somehow my son was being oversensative or that the teacher was correct in condeming my son's work when she didn't give him the tools to do it how she wanted anyway...well...let's just say it's not the impression you want to give.

Even in the Gay Adoption thread you had to preface your praise of my parenting choices with how "You already know my feelings on gay adoption" and now you want more juicy details on just how this teacher made my 10 year old son who grew up in a former Soviet style orphanage, never knew his real parents, and had all these dreams about what America was, cry and demand in his native language that he "wanted his Mommy and Daddy" and "nothing any stupid pig of an American can do can take these parents away."

She is very lucky I am not pressing for her job come to think of it.

But you are young Starship, and you still have a ways to go. Hows are important yes, but the Whys are the bigger picture.