Parents hope to raise genderless child

Yes, since it's awkward in phrasing due to the word's usual role in English. I mean, it half-works when you absolutely don't know the person's sex that you're referring to, but I can't see it being used universally to refer to everyone.

Maybe if we could get everyone to agree on ONE set of the alternative pronouns out there, it'd help somewhat.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:10:27 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Really? Nobody gives a shit out here. Singular they all the way! DOWN WITH THE ENGLISH TEACHERS WHO BITCH. We like regularly switch from they and gendered pronouns. Because no one cares.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:10:32 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

That's nice, I guess?

I mean, I certainly obviously have seen people use "they" or switch between pronouns in situations where someone's sex is not known (usually online), or something is applicable to both sexes (like an instruction manual or something).

But I've almost never seen people casually use "they" or pronoun-switching to refer to people whose sex is already known. That's the kicker here. (And the few people I have seen do it self-profess as sympathizing with the gender-neutral movement.)

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:17:28 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Really? I've seen it. Neato...I like learning about the inconsistencies between language use all over the place...It makes linguistics fun! But frustrating for anyone who likes precision. Thank god I don't outside of paper folding.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:18:33 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

I basically don't use gender pronouns at all. It hasn't been too difficult.

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.

Well, yes, because you identify with the gender-neutral movement, so you make a deliberate attempt to do so.

But most people in casual usage only use gender-neutral constructs in the absence of knowledge. When sex/gender is instead known, they use "he" and "she".

For a gender-neutral pronoun to take hold, it'd have to be something that everyone casually uses even when sex is known, in the same ways "he" and "she" are used. I simply have not seen that (and I live in MA, for pity's sake, which is about as LGBT-friendly as you can get).

Like I said, it'd probably help if the movement could actually decide on one set of terms.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:25:51 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Really? God my area of California must be just really fucking weird because people use singular they even with the knowledge and generally either don't care about or support the gender neutral or transgender movements... Those get written off as funny bullshit or something that they don't care about.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yes, your area of CA is weird, then, sorry. (Seriously, if anyone's seriously going to try and tell me it's common language usage in English-speaking countries to use gender-neutral constructs all the time, even when sex is known, I am flat-out going to just call bullshit and not debate it.)

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:34:58 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

No, it's something I've been doing since... like, forever. Of course, I've been rather atypical from the outset, and being raised partly Japanese likely has something to with it. I think it mostly comes from trying to avoid referencing other people at all.

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.

That's neat to learn that it's so different...I wonder what other differences with language uses it has...

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Turkish has different terms for whether someone is related to you on your mother's side or your father's side.

However, they only have three basic pronouns

I — Ben

You — Sen

He/She/It — O

Read my stories!

Oooooh.

I don't know what Thai has. I know they have gendered sentence enders though.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:40:45 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Japanese's gendered pronouns are entirely first-person, I think.

edited 3rd Jun '11 5:41:46 PM by Meophist

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.

Things like boku and atashi yes?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yes, things like that.

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.

Ah. Thai pronouns are based off both gender and one's relation to the person. Subject pronouns are often omitted and informal nicknames used where we'd normally use one. They also don't have a separate possessive pronoun like his or her. They have a lot of other ones with various nuances.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Japanese is the only language I know where the pronouns are truly gendered as opposed to sexed. And they only have that for the first person pronouns.

EDIT:

Okay, you are using gender in an entirely different way than I am using it. You seem to use sex to mean "those parts of sex/gender which are part of you" and gender to mean "those parts of sex/gender which are culturally imposed". Meanwhile I'm using sex to mean "those parts of sex/gender which are physical" and gender to mean "those parts of sex/gender which are ideas".

Since David Reimer's gender identity (or anybody else's, for that matter) was both part of him and an idea, we disagree on whether it's part of his gender or part of his sex. But we don't seem to disagree on anything of significance as far as I can tell, so I propose agreeing to disagree on the definition.

edited 3rd Jun '11 6:45:24 PM by BlackHumor

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

"Yes, since it's awkward in phrasing due to the word's usual role in English."

They was an accepted third person neuter singular for ages. Having it act as plural only is a recent standardization.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Well, it's always been syntactically plural, but you're right that it always being semantically plural as well is a relatively recent thing. Shakespeare and many other famous authors used singular "they" plenty of times without awkwardness.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

Relevant.

I think 'xe' Needs More Love, myself.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.