JAFAAC, better picture needed: Bolivian Army Ending

The title is probably an example of Trope Namer Syndrome.

Anyway, images are supposed to explain the trope. As in, they have to show some connection to it. A reader unfamiliar with the movie won't go "ah, what a clever reference. I should see that movie." He'll go "what the hell does the picture have to do with anything?"

edited 13th Dec '11 7:14:35 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Again, my argument that we're appealing to the Lowest Common Denominator. We can put a caption that says what movie it's from. Then how hard is it for a reader to scroll down to "Film" and read about what the Bolivian Army Ending is in the movie?

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

That's an awful lot to ask of someone when the only benefit is that you get to make a reference that you like.

This wiki is written for the readers, not the writers. Asking every reader to do extra work so a few editors get to do something fun is exactly the opposite of how we're supposed to do things.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I know Butch Cassidy but not True Grit (although it does ring a bell and invited an "aaaah..."). However, I think we need to set the bar higher than that; it's one thing for a work to be a cultural milestone, another to be inside the Small Reference Pools.

And either way, we still need to make sure that the image works to a certain degree first before assigning bonus points to the Trope Namer. If we can work on Butch Cassidy by way of multi-part images and/or captions and make it effective, I'm all for it. But so far it's I think insufficient.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Oh, absolutely. I should clarify that if there's an image from it that shows the entire trope, I'll be all for it.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I thought we were supposed to be against Small Reference Pools?

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

How well known the work is has zero relevance to how good of an image it makes. The point of the image is not to be an example; it's to demonstrate the trope in a visual manner as succinctly as possible.

Reaction Image Repository

We are. On purpose. The goal is to be accessible to people who haven't seen a movie. "It's referenced" or "people understand what the term means" aren't very strong arguments since people begin to spot how references are different from some other gag as well as glean definition from usage (this is actually how language propagates).

We are intentionally trying to be easy to understand for those who don't have extensive pop culture knowledge. While people seeing and recognizing a scene and jumping from that to the trope is good, it's unreliable, so we try to make sure that all the relevant data is contained within the image, not off on some other page or buried in the examples section (or named in the description, which used to occur).

Fight smart, not fair.

A page image of the Trope Namer / etc. is only a bonus at best, but an increased risk of being JAFAAC at worst. The real selling point for an image is whether it visually conveys the definition of the trope. Not "example", but "definition".

The current image? Standard JAFAAC. It's an example that requires knowing the source material to recognize. It does not convey the definition.

edited 13th Dec '11 8:48:58 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

@ Martello

What I meant was, in some cases where we need to make an assumption on the reader's familiarity with certain works, we should assume that they know about the things in the Small Reference Pools. And works can be a cultural milestone without being inside the Pools.

An image first and foremost needs to work to total strangers to the work where it came from. It is true that, I believe, when a bunch of images all work very well, Trope Namer should get the priority (even if we can split hairs and "prove" that it's slightly behind another image), it still needs to work first.

Which means, because the Butch Cassidy image as it is right now doesn't work, it cannot pull the Trope Namer card yet.

edited 13th Dec '11 9:21:55 AM by Catalogue

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

I'm obviously the minority here, so I'll acquiesce. If someone comes up with a composite image or the like based on the Trope Namer I'll definitely support it.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

How about an image that is both completely spoiler free, sums it up quite nicely, and is well known? I'm talking about a shot from the final moments◊ of blackadder. Alternatively I say we use an unedited version of the human torch one, because having to put "THIS IS THE END" seems awfully patronizing.

I have no idea what that's supposed to be a picture of.

Reaction Image Repository

Someone on the previous page suggested using the current image for Conservation of Ninjutsu, which basically is the same as the Human Torch example, but has the added benefit of no spoilers. Unless there's some rule about not reusing images across the wiki that I'm not aware of.

It might work, but I think there needs to be more of an element of uncertainty. That looks like a definite end to me.

One Piece blog Beyond the Lampshade

Blackadder still needs context for viewers to understand immediately. Also, it's atypical: they all unambiguously died. No cliffhanger-ish situation, no Conservation of Ninjutsu.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Here's my proposed Megaman Zero image.◊

Not bad...any chance we could get a cleaner version?

If you can, it won't be from me, that's the highest quality I could find.

Well Japanese teeth, if you can't tell I suppose it is not as unambiguous as it seems.

I'd still like to note that the idea of having to put a big "End" disclaimer on the thing is rather insulting.

Catalogue: There is no need for a "Conservation of Ninjutsu" (I refuse to make everything a link) scenario, nor is the trope meant to be ambiguous. It's about the piece ending with the main characters going up against odds they cannot possibly surmount, which blackadder perfectly summarizes.

edited 14th Dec '11 8:18:53 PM by frdcrllr

The problem is more that the picture is too blurry; I can't make anything out other than some barbed wire in the front of it. Not to mention that it doesn't really demonstrate the trope at all. The trope is "A Bolivian Army Ending occurs when the main characters face seemingly insurmountable odds which, for once, they fail to surmount, although their ultimate doom is sometimes left to the audience's imagination." I see no main characters or insurmountable odds, just what appears to be a battlefield.

The Megaman pic could work if the quality was better.

Reaction Image Repository

Yeah it's still not very clear, since the enemy force is not visible. The effects are also rather cheap, it's not very evocative. Even in the original it's the slo-mo and the music that makes it work.

And it is and example all right. Just atypical. But let's put that aside.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

So what went wrong with the Johnny Storm pic?

Well, thanks to Sprites Inc., now you, too, can make your own crisper image of that Megaman Zero image! Just add Photoshop or something.

Background◊ Zero◊ Source

Moon◊

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

Nicely done, supporting that over current.

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