Identity Politics

Why don't we simply completely ignore race and not have any laws whatsoever regarding it?

Why don't we completely ignore sex and not have any laws whatsoever regarding it?

Why don't we sever ties with all organizations that are based on the idea of having a shared language, history, race, and culture? Such as, for example, Germany, Russia, Japan, China, Spain, France, Italy, and so on? Don't such associations result in racism and war?

Why don't we declare zero-tolerance for all organizations that use violent means in order to enforce the existence of an identity that has no material substance, such as "American" or "Liberal" or "Conservative"? Are Americans physically different from Canadians, all the way down to their DNA, or not?

Why don't we simply completely ignore race and not have any laws whatsoever regarding it?

Because that wouldn't be fair to minorities, or so the reasoning goes.

Why don't we completely ignore sex and not have any laws whatsoever regarding it?

Because sexism is still alive and kickin'

Why don't we sever ties with all organizations that are based on the idea of having a shared language, history, race, and culture? Such as, for example, Germany, Russia, Japan, China, Spain, France, Italy, and so on? Don't such associations result in racism and war?

Because societies are built on shared language, history and culture. I would argue that human beings result in racism and war, if you had two people left alive they'd hate the other guy and want to kill him.

Because to do so would be idiotic, not to mention impossible. You can't expect people just to forget about these things that have become central to how they live their lives.

Well, for laws about what sex you are, there are biological differences that may need to be accounted for.

And as to all the rest - why do people think that if only race, country and cultures were all obliterated and we only had one culture all over the world, wars would stop? They wouldn't. People will always find something to argue about as long as there are differences.

The end of that reasoning is "there will be perfect harmony as long as everybody is exactly the same". I don't like that, I like diversity.

Well, as much as I'd like to join the majority tyranny hive mind, there's a few things that will keep it from working:

1. Men and women have biological differences and those differences need to be accounted for. Could we improve on where we draw the line? Oh very much yes, but they're still different.
2. Double standards in favor of minorities is not a bad thing. This guy does a seriously good job at explaining why some double standards are needed, it's because history has had quite a few major double standards against those people keeping them from being equal in terms to the majority.
3. And if we were to sever all connections to previous history, well, what have we learned? The thing with the past is that it defines us as individuals, and by severing those ties, we give up the ability to learn from past mistakes and instead just go with the crowd.
4. And zero tolerance? So basically we should be forceful and even violent towards those who don't want to fit in? Keep in mind, equality can be reached by pointing out both difference and similarities. I'd recommend reading up on some of Dr. King's works.

edited 14th May '11 12:00:05 AM by Usht

More or less what KCK says. The simplest way to sum it up is: because human nature. People think all these kinds of things are important to their identity and, short of some kind of totalitarianism that most would see as unacceptable, they're not going to stop. In fact, you'd virtually have to go in for mind-control, since even real totalitarian states like the Soviet Union weren't able to stop people identifying themself by ethnic group, gender and so on.

Ssfsx, I get the feeling you might have a bit in common with me in terms of how you define your identity. It's important to realize that people who define their identities in different terms from us still feel the same way we do about preserving their identities, and for that matter they're often horrified at the thought that anyone would have a concept of self-identity that doesn't include what their concept includes. (For instance, my mother was repulsed to learn that I don't consider my body a part of my selfhood.)

edited 15th May '11 12:00:55 AM by feotakahari

I think the issue isn't so much identification.

Sure, removing all this might solve problems, but we'd also lose a great deal of cultural diversity. The better solution is to work on ways in which diverse groups can have their differences and celebrate those rather than fighting over them.

OP, I completely agree with the first point you made - we should just remove race and sex from our laws and treat people the same way. Reverse discrimination is discrimination as well and being rejected for job just because you are white is as bad as being rejected for job because you are not white. The other ones though are too extreme. There is nothing wrong with separate, coexisting cultures and languages and non-hateful patriotic sentiment is generally a good thing in my book.

If race, ethnicity, gender, religion, nations, classes, states, borders, and so on were abolished worldwide there would be far less conflict. Unfortunately it seems profoundly unlikely to say the least. We live in a world where some people are disadvantaged.

edited 15th May '11 9:31:34 AM by LoveHappiness

There is no world where there are no disadvantaged people, we'll never live in Mary Suetopia

"There is no world where there are no disadvantaged people, we'll never live in Mary Suetopia"

If there is a multiverse, then there certainly is such a world. I say never say never, even when things look absurdly impossible.

Oh well, I think that even if there's Multiverse (which I find probable) then there's no perfect world in it. After all, what would be life without obstacles, hardships and struggles? How would we shape ourseles? What would we learn. There is no good without evil

Some things cannot be understood when you don't know the opposite. Also, we're derailing a bit

I suppose I should be thankful for the Internet in this regard—a casual reader neither knows nor cares where I'm from and what I look like. We still get into arguments, but at least we argue over reasonably substantive topics.

In theory.

There would also be far less diversity. I like differences in religion, gender, and culture - if everyone were exactly the same the world would be boring.

The reason is because humans are simultaneously the most horrible and annoying fucks ever and the most amazing and interesting ones. Diversity and identity is what makes us interesting and what makes us fucking miserable to deal with. It's just a part of us and were we to destroy one thing we would create another way to differentiate.

edited 16th May '11 12:29:19 AM by Aondeug

Culture is overrated. If we're going to define ourselves, we should define ourselves by the groups we join, not the ones we're born into. Especially since people who try to switch cultures tend to be mocked rather than accepted ("wigger," "oreo," "otaku" . . .)

I thought the reason people mock that is that they aren't really adopting the culture, they're adopting a few superficial and 'cool' parts of the culture believing it to be better than their own?

That is why as well as/or the belief that you cannot become something you weren't born into race and culture wise.

It's very annoying when you aren't a loser who is just cherry picking cool shit. Very, very annoying. You get lumped in with the tards because they are the most numerous and memorable.

edited 16th May '11 12:38:40 AM by Aondeug

I think people who 'switch' cultures atr mocked because they have no personality of their own and try to adapt to their new group. Of course, the same applies to many fandoms, racial communities (see: all the 'playing white' drama when black people are criticized for doing 'white' things like going to school or having a job) and basically any group with 'it's more than X, it's a lifestyle' attitude

My main gripe with identity politics are the self-appointed racial/gender enforcers who try to bend other members of their group to some sorta normative party line (is there a trope for that? There should be!).

edited 17th May '11 7:37:42 AM by MRDA1981

Treating the human race as 7 billion undifferentiated piles of flesh tends to not go well with a good 7 billion of those people.

I'd rather the human race be treated as 7 million differented pieces of flesh. That's closer to reality, and more desirable.