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Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
I'm not so sure. One of the possible precedents being set now by Brexit is that a referendum does not need to be binding for it to be considered enforceable.
Brexit is happening despite the referendum being considered advisory.
So on that notion, I think it is possible for Scotland to at least hold the referendum, Westminster be dammed. And as long as said referendum is well organised and by all appearances a fair and reasonable debate, I think that the Brexit paradigm will at least give the SNP a constitutional avenue for their objectives.
This very snarl is baked into how referendums have been used in the UK. Here, look at them. Independence, devolution, joining/leaving the EU and only one to do with none of that. And, that was the Tories deliberately spiking the Lib Dems as much as possible.
Now, look at the dates and count the Tory (and Tory-Lite) use of the things as trap cards to shut dissenting voices up, throw bones or kick problems down the road "with a mandate from the people".
We have never used the things for what they're better designed for! Feedback on simple issues! Instead, the least democratically inclined politicians usually reach for them to have something to shut those who are democratically inclined up by using a tool that has "direct democracy" written on the box. But, nobody says that you aren't allowed to use the answer to go beyond the scope of the question... because we don't have strong guidelines on policing how referendums are to be used after they've been run.
Deliberately so, if you ask me. :/
edited 26th Jan '17 2:30:10 AM by Euodiachloris
You and Wyld Chyld have both made such comments before, and, as I've said before, I'd be more than happy to welcome either or both of you up here! You both deserve better than England/Wales respectively is likely to provide you in the near future 
The Scottish council elections are in May and Labour are facing total oblivion. I don't have the link to hand but Inverclyde's Labour party have already conceded defeat - they're directly planning for how to handle things as the second party in the council, and have said as much in those words in the local papers. Not even trying.
I'm a Green member not SNP, but I'm looking forward to an SNP wipeout of most Labour strongholds, and the Tories will pick up the rest. The SNP are actively campaigning on a pro-EU platform, and the Greens, their allies, are with them on it. This is not a bad time at all to look at moving to Scotland!
Captain of the Dead City
I genuinely couldn't leave Wales, even for Scotland or Europe. Or further afield. I don't care if it's just us and England, outside the EU, in a perpetual Tory dystopia.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
I think at this point I just want to GTFO from the Isles in general.
Captain of the Dead City
I know the feeling, but Wales is somewhere I don't think I can walk away from.
Plus, if we sane people leave, we're just going to leave a higher concentration of madmen behind, along with the other sane people who just can't emigrate.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
The British PM and American President are holding a side by side press conference
How bad is it? I haven't had a chance to see the news today.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Couldn't say. Sound wasn't on and I wasn't paying attention to the closed captioning
Supposedly May convinced Trump to not abandon the NATO....nice spin, but nonsense.
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Two-thirds of the centre's budget—around £60 million per year—is currently paid by Euratom.
The UK government announced its decision to withdraw from Euratom, the agency responsible for nuclear safety and security, in the notes accompanying a bill to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, published on 26 January.
The nuclear organisation, set up in 1957, is a separate legal entity governed by European Union institutions. According to the notes, withdrawal is necessary because under the EU Act of 2008, the term “EU” also covers Euratom.
Steven Cowley, president of the University of Oxford’s Corpus Christi College and a former chief executive of the UK Atomic Energy Authority, said that leaving Euratom would deliver a “tremendous blow” to both UK nuclear research and Iter, Euratom’s international nuclear fusion energy demonstration project, which is being built in France.
Cowley, who led Culham between 2008 and 2016, is urging the UK government to negotiate a deal to retain a role in Euratom. He said, however, that such a deal will be subject to negotiations with the EU institutions and may require Britain to pay the organisation roughly as much as it would get from it, as Switzerland does. “It is critical that the UK stays heavily involved in Euratom,” he told Research Fortnight.
The UK will be building next-generation TF-X fighters for Turkey. Have these guys experienced the wonders of BAE yet?
"This cannot mean a return to the failed policies of the past. The days of Britain and America intervening in sovereign countries in an attempt to remake the world in our own image are over.
"But nor can we afford to stand idly by when the threat is real and when it is in our own interests to intervene. We must be strong, smart and hard-headed. And we must demonstrate the resolve necessary to stand up for our interests."
Well, I'd be pretty nonplussed if someone tried to remake my country as the US or UK circa January 28, 2017...
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Train. Wreck.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
May is on a roll when it comes to appeasing her fellow authoritarians.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38779669
Hm. So Brexit supporters voted to 'escape' Turkish immigration via the EU only to see the UK cosy right up to Turkey directly?
Now that the EU has lost one of only two Turkish supporters from the EU (the other being Poland), it can crack down on Turkey's violations of EU membership negotiations.
edited 17th Nov '17 4:32:18 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Is the political climate friendly for foreign students seeking scholarship program?
A procrastination in of itself
Depends is a lot on the skin colour of the student. But generally no even if one is white.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
A procrastination in of itself
In an email to Labour members Corbyn has committed the party to voting for article 50...
I'm going to try and write a letter, still if he goes though with this I will campaign to have him removed as leader, if that fails I will be leaving the party.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I take it there was no explanation as to why, other than generic fluff about respecting the result of the referendum?
It's clear that this is a significant change in the policy position of the Labour Party. A move like this needs to be backed up with either a robust debate in which all parties feel their opinion has been respected - or a conviction that this is part of an electoral strategy that will win in 2020.
Obviously the first hasn't happened, and there is some doubt that Labour in it's current iteration can win it's own by-elections, let alone a general election.
A procrastination in of itself
The why wasn't really touched on in detail, the email was about how Labour is going to fight for the best Brexit possible *pukes* more than about explaining why we're supporting Brexit at all.
Honestly after that email I'd rather vote for Nick Clegg than Corbyn, at mine was the first lot to get hit by the fees increase.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The email in full:
As we all know, the result was a vote to leave.
We are not a party for the 48% or the 52%, but for everyone. We have an important role to play in bringing the country together and getting the best possible deal from Brexit.
Labour respects the will of the British people. But we do not respect the will of a Tory government that is threatening to relegate Britain to a bargain basement tax haven.
That's why we will vote to trigger Article 50 in the European Union Withdrawal Bill — but also will use every means at our disposal to make sure jobs, living standards, workers' rights and environmental protections are protected in the negotiations that follow.
So Labour has tabled a series of amendments to the Bill to ensure there is meaningful parliamentary scrutiny at every stage and a vote on the final deal.
We have also tabled an amendment to build in the broad principles we need to get the best outcome for our country - including tariff-free access to the single market and an anti-tax haven amendment to make sure the Prime Minister does not use Brexit as an excuse to duck out of tackling tax avoidance and evasion.
And we will support amendments to ensure the Tories don't yet again attack people's rights at work.
This is a difficult moment for our party. We campaigned to remain, but we have to accept the democratic result.
We will be reaching out to our friends and allies in the European socialist and progressive parties to help secure an agreement that strengthens cooperation and solidarity across Europe.
We must remember that what unites us is far stronger than what divides us: our commitment to defend our NHS, to campaign against the Tories' cuts to schools and social care - and our determination to build a country in which no one and no community is left behind.
We will vote for Article 50, but we will not be giving the Tories a blank cheque on their damaging agenda for Brexit - or any of their other failures.
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Caving bastard...
"You can reply to this Message!"
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Tweet claiming that the only Sunday paper reporting on Trump's Muslim ban is The Observer.
If that's the actual front page and the reporting on the existence of an open letter by grassroots Labour opposing Corbyn's willingness to sign Article 50 is indeed accurate, you might want to track it down if you haven't already, Silas.
EDIT: Here it is
edited 29th Jan '17 4:53:03 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
If that is genuinely the plan - well, we've always said that Corbyn's most admirable trait is his idealism. Or, for those of us of a cynical bent, his naivety.
If the plan is to try and let Brexit happen on the Tory's terms such that when it falls apart in 2019 they get all the blame, then fine, good idea.
The issue is however that when it goes tits up no one is going to be splitting hairs over "oh we should have negotiated a deal in this way" or "if we hadn't threatened to become Bermuda on Thames we would have been ok."
No, the overriding message will be "we shouldn't of tried to leave in the first place, why did they (politicians) let us do it?". (Don't expect any self-reflection on the part of the electorate on this one.)
And as such, the only stance which is going to cut through the chaff will be "we opposed Article 50, we opposed the Government in the foolhardy adventure, we didn't want this." Not some wishy washy message of "well, we wanted to leave just we wanted a Labour Brexit not a Tory Brexit."
In the 2020 general election campaign, the rallying cry of "Check Hansard in 2017, our amendments that the Tories voted down would have resulted in a slightly less worse situation then you are currently in" isn't going to fly.
The most stupid thing about this stance - it relies on a deal being made! It needs Theresa May and Guy Verhofstadt to be signing a piece of paper in a big fancy ceremony. If, as we suspect, the "deal" we get is the "time's up" deal because of the impossibility of agreeing Brexit in two years then it doesn't matter about these token amendments - the only decision that had any significance was the Article 50 decision and there will be Tory and Labour fingers on that button as a consequence of this stance.
Vote no. Or say vote yes, but make it a free vote. Not this - it's just naivety in the extreme.
So, does that mean a Spain style standoff over self-determination?
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.