On the subject of violent video games...

I think, it's very hypocritical to reject the possibility that there might be a connection between violence and entertainment media, because "there is no evidence", and then rant about how the news media on the other hand is totally connected to, nay, an accomplice in murder, because a talking head said so and it sounds about right.

You either accept that people are in perfect control of their choices, OR you admit that they areinfluenced by the culture around them, and that culture includes both news media and the entertainment media. But please, stop picking tribes to protect.

Besides, his Starcraft example was also rather contereffective. The fact that Starcraft is NOT a shooter, and that it's the biggest game in a non-shooting-obsessed country, reminds me of moviebob's Overbytes episode where he argued that rather than video games causing shootings in America, it is America's established violence culture that caused shootings in video games. (A really good analysis, watch it).

that video is well spoken.

although, traditional media may be even worse than he stated, they may in fact be aware that they inspire copycats and may in fact be provoking such massacres for their own gain

i'm reminded of the murdoch-inspired villain of Tomorrow Never Dies

(as well as a few Cracked articles showing how powerful people sparked wars for their monetary gain)

It's not that hypocritical. Most of anti video game stuff comes from uneducated talking heads, the "nutters are doing copycat attacks" is coming from someone who looks at science. Admittedly, he hasn't pointed to any actual studies, but we've had tabloid inspired violence before (see the Spanish American War). There's also the fact that it's not hypocritical if science shows it's not the case that people are affected by one and not the other.

edited 20th Jan '13 9:39:29 AM by Deboss

I'm sorry, but there's a hefty degree of personal bias built into your posts that it's hard to ignore.

The fact of the matter is, all of you video gamers (myself among you) stand to benefit if there's no connection. Which makes your arguments pretty unbelievable.

Frankly, video games are a form of media like any other. By glorifying violence, they contribute to it. Does COD contribute more than, say, the Die Hard franchise? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is that they both present violence as an acceptable and in fact heroic form of problem-solving. Now, other forms of media share the guilt. But to argue that video games don't stand among them is stupid. Video games, like any other form of media, tell children that they should become important and famous, and that violence will accomplish those goals.

That's a nice story, but the evidence doesn't back it up.

There's plenty of research demonstrating potential negative effects of violent media.

I'm seeing a flaw in your argument. While I do agree that videogames, like all media ,influence the people who partake in them, The videogames that ten year olds and other childrean around that age are generally advized to play do not advocate voilence against other innocent humans/animals. It they are playing games that are more violent than the average Zelda game (as an example)and are badly influenced by it, that is the parent/gaurdian's fault for allowing that to happen without properly teaching their kids what is morally correct/good behavior to emulate in the first place. If a mentally sound person is so easily swayed to become dangerously violent just by playing a videogame, then maybe they just aren't capable of handling media influence in general. You know, negative peer pressure and all that.

edited 20th Jan '13 12:21:22 PM by ScorpioRat

There's plenty of research showing that there's no, or even an inverse statistical relation between the popularity of violent video games and violence.

Both of these statements are true.

It's the thing that gets hammered in in all my psychology classes. Correlation does not equal causation. Just because crime lowers in cold weather and hot chocolate sales go up does not mean hot chocolate lowers crime.

Although, some people arguing against gun control probably hate psychology.

edited 20th Jan '13 1:35:50 PM by Zendervai

And, the other problems: recursive loops and reinforcement behaviours. Two processes that are devils to sort out when it comes to the evaluation of social phenomena.

Which comes first? Chicken or egg?

edited 20th Jan '13 1:37:17 PM by Euodiachloris

If people are going to say that violence in any media leaves such an impression on children, then where are the parents to monitor it? Why does the entertainment media have to censor itself because parents can't be bothered to step up to tell their kids what they can and cannot see? TV, films, and video games have clear ratings and the sellers of the games/tickets/whatever check for ID. Parents need to take advantage of these things rather than assume their child is well behaved enough to not go against their parents' wishes.

And if a parent has a child with a mental disorder or disability, then it is their job to make sure their child grows up in a healthy environment and to monitor their behavior.

People behind the violent entertainment should not be blamed (unless they purposely marketing their stuff to kids, then that's another story to tell). That's like the lawsuits that went on decades ago where a bunch of fat people sued the fast food corporations for "making them fat", despite the fact they were eating at their establishments everyday. No one wants to take responsibility and no one wants to say it's the parents' fault cause that would make everyone else look too mean spirited.

Of course, some may wonder why I am so worked up over this. One state is trying to pass off a tax on violent video games, which means if I were to live in that state, I'd be paying a lot more for my video games and games are expensive enough as it is! This would reduce sales for the people that make the games and in turn, it would mean fewer risks to be taken and possibly fewer games that would be released in the market. If more states were on board with this tax proposal, it would make buying video games more of a chore and even online purchase wouldn't be able to avoid it.

I'm tired of all this. I'm tired of having to see the sensational media quickly finger video games as the soul cause of every major violent event. It's time for people to look deeper and treat the source rather than the symptoms.

We do have statistical references for school shootings though. According to this, the difference between 1940's and 2000's shootings per decade was an approximate increase of 4/decade. So if our media is causing it, we're apparently going up at one shooting per media added. ^note The previous numbers were calculated using media math.

Meh. Worth it.

At least to me. If they want to keep kids from playing violent videogames, then cool, maybe I'll actually start wearing my headset in Xbox Live again.

But honestly, that genie is out of the bottle and I don't feel it can be put back in.

edited 20th Jan '13 2:35:56 PM by Barkey

I thought this video by Jim Sterling was very relevant.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6692-Desensitized-to-Violence

^

It was, I agree.

As someone who grew◊ up◊ playing◊ games◊ that, despite graphical limitations, were much more gory and detailed than todays games(imo, this was because PC games back then were meant specifically for adults) I like to feel like I can pretty much stamp out this falsehood pretty well. As far as my age group, I'm about as old as you can currently be and still have had access to violent video games(re:I didn't grow up with pong), so I think the adults of my generation aren't a bad sample group to look at for a correlation. I grew up in a home saturated in violent games, and Doom 1, a very gory game even by todays standards visually, was the first game I teethed on as a little kid. I picked started playing the game with my dad when I was 8 years old.

I've seen a lot of violence in my life so far, compared to the average American. I found my dad when he hung himself, I was 12. As an MP stateside I've had to struggle with suspects and fight them, sometimes to my own detriment. I've arrived at domestic violence calls where a wife is bloody and her eyes have been swollen shut. I've been to Afghanistan, and seen my share of human violence at its worst, seeing it as it is being inflicted.

Not once have I ever went "Meh." to any of that. It was all horrifying. It was horrifying when it was my father and I was 12, and it was horrifying in Afghanistan. It will still be horrifying in its own way the next time I see it, and the time after that. You learn to shrug it off as best you can with practice, but crumpling it up into a little ball and throwing it into the corner of your mind is not the same as being desensitized. It takes practice, horrifying experience, and mental preparation, and it never goes away. Violence in real life is lightning fast, lacks any real boundaries or censorship, and is silent and un-grandiose in every sense. Real violence is terrifying, video game violence is comical by comparison. Only people who have never had to view real violence firsthand think that the two have any sort of legitimate connection.

On another note, it makes me feel really old to think that at the age of 7 or 8 I had already started murdering◊ nazi's and protecting freedom and democracy from mecha-hitler◊ when many tropers were still wriggling around in their daddy's balls.

edited 20th Jan '13 5:27:59 PM by Barkey

No matter how realistic a video game looks, it is still not real. Like, most really bloody video games look like everyone is wearing clothes with sacks of red paint sewed in. There's also a degree of separation because you're looking at it through a screen, and also because most people who aren't insane or have severe mental issues are aware that they aren't real. It's pretty surprising how little something can prepare you if you are convinced it isn't real.

It's part of the reason why those silly instructional videos different companies try to use for training don't work that great.

edited 20th Jan '13 5:51:33 PM by Zendervai

If you want to link gun violence to video games, you should probably at least bother to expand your search to other nations that play the same video games and see if the same trends hold.

Spoiler: they don't.

edited 20th Jan '13 5:57:11 PM by Pykrete

In before someone says stupid things like playing violent video games let you vent off without going on actual killing spree

But yeah, problem with scapegoats is that actual causes of problem are never fixed :P

^

That isn't an unreasonable theory though, one theory I've heard and kind of accept is that humans have aggression as a natural part of who we are, and we used to have tasks that were just part of our lives that we poured that energy into, like hunting and competitive sports. Not everyone likes hunting and not everybody enjoys sports, so video games are just sort of another outlet for that competitive/aggressive energy.

Not having any outlet for that energy is a bad thing, I feel. I know what it's like to be cooped up for tons of time on end without working out, fighting, playing sports, or playing video games. I get fucking miserable, and I think it's because all of those things are ways that I get rid of stress.

to late, I made that suggestion a couple of pages back.

Ah, dang it, you did do that but I kind of forgot about it D:

Hmm...maybe I should write a blog post on this topic so I can share it with other writers. Should I?

Let's gather all the evidence into a list of links.

Please don't link to this thread if you do

I wish we still had serious hunting, to be honest. It might be a better way to work off aggression. But real hunting, none of this shotgun stuff. I'm talking about hunting animals with a bow and arrow. I'd respect the hell out of that.